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Post by brussie on Oct 6, 2011 20:27:38 GMT -5
Hi all, I'm finally scheduled for a lap in November. I appear to have developed another cyst (an endometrioma) on my right ovary. It's about 5cm. I had one of these rupture just last May on the same ovary, so my body seems to be pretty keen on making them! Anyway, my OBGYN wants me to begin some sort of drug treatment post-lap. She recommended the Mirena, put I had a Paragard IUD and it was horrible. In fact, I blame the Paragard for initiating my endometriosis. I know the Mirena is different because it has progestin in it, but the thought of another T-shaped foreign body being shoved into my uterus makes me uncomfortable I see a holistic MD and she had my hormone levels tested via blood test. My progesterone level is "perfect", my testosterone is a little low, and estrogen is out-of-range crazy high. Actually, I dug up a hormone blood test that was run about 5 years ago when I felt fine and my estrogen level is now double what it was then! (However, my progesterone back then was super low...I think taking Vitex has boosted it.) So, I am incredibly reluctant to take anything with estrogen in it (eg. combined pill, ring, patch, etc.). I was thinking that the mini pill (I think Micronor is the only brand available in the US now) might be an option. I've read that many of the side effects from the mini pill are androgenic, meaning that the pill has some testosterone-like effects. But, since my testosterone is low anyway, maybe this would be okay for me? Does anyone have any experience with Micronor or some other form of the mini pill? I think there are a few more available in the UK. From what I have seen, irregular (though light) bleeding is a pretty common side-effect. Thanks!
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Post by disturbedme on Oct 6, 2011 22:15:14 GMT -5
I am glad you are asking this because I have just asked my gyn for a prescription of Micronor to treat my endo. I am sooooo crazy anxious though on trying any type of fake hormone because of blood clot issues. I don't want to put myself in danger or cause any more problems for myself since I have enough as it is!!! lol. :-\ I wish things were easier for us ladies.
I am sorry I have no answer for you, but I hope you get a lot of answers as I am also interested in what others have to say about the mini pill or about Micronor.
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Post by disturbedme on Oct 6, 2011 22:21:44 GMT -5
I'm actually so anxious I don't know if I should go with Micronor or just try bio-identical progesterone cream. I can't decide what to do.
But I have the same problem as you... stupid endometrioma - it's the reason I had to have a laparoscopy (August 17, 2011) and it's the reason we found out I have endo, which I guess is a good thing to find out... but yeah...
I just wish I knew which route to go. The natural route or the fake hormone route? My whole life I have been 'healthy' and tried to be as natural as possible, but where did that get me? Not in a very good position.... so maybe I should just take the Micronor and hope for no bad health issues with it.
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Post by redwood on Oct 7, 2011 18:45:39 GMT -5
I took the mini pill for 6 months back in 2007 for prevention of endo (after I had surgery in 2005). I took it for 6 months and it made me have a period (light, but still like a period) every two weeks. After 6 months of that, I stopped as I was kind of sick of that honestly. I didn't have any other side effects than that. I had taken a combination pill for 17 years (before I ever had endo) and had no side effects except migraines. First it was headaches and later turned into migraines. I took it for so long that I didn't know it was the pill causing me migraines, until I stopped taking it and then realized I never got headaches at all anymore. Progesterone on it's own (progestin or bio-identical) does not give me any headaches.
I take bio-identical progesterone now in troche form (200mg). Brussie - you can see our thread on that in the natural treatment section (it's near the top). Disturbedme was already over there too.
Progesterone decreases my endo pain. Maybe the progestin would have too, but I was just taking that for preventative rather than for symptoms at the time, so I don't know. It has the same effect of making your period much lighter too.
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Post by brussie on Oct 9, 2011 20:46:47 GMT -5
Hi disturbedme, have you decided to try the micronor? I'll be interested to know how it works for you. Your case sounds similar to mine. I have problems with fatigue, anemia, and cyclical stomach/intestinal pain but drs didn't suspect endo because my periods aren't heavy or particularly painful. But with my apparent second endometrioma on my right ovary and adhesions on my left ovary, my obgyn is now pretty sure that I do have endo. I also try to be as natural as possible, that's why I tried the paragard iud because it's hormone-free. But, if micronor can stop endometriomas from recurring and possibly relieve my fatigue and anemia, I'll give it a try. My holistic md is hopeful that the endo might go into remission if we can get my estrogen levels down. So I'm looking at the micronor as a short term (6-9 month) solution, more like an acute treatment than longterm.
However, the micronor seems less scary to me than the combined pill. I like that you can still ovulate on the micronor. From what I've read, it doesn't affect hormone levels dramatically, its effects are mostly on the endometrium cells directly. As far as blood clots, I think that's caused by estrogen. Since the pops are estrogen-free, i think it shouldn't be a concern. Also, combined pills have a higher dose of progestin in them than progestin only pills (pops) do.
Hi redwood, thanks for sharing your experience. Even though it was light, I could see how having a biweekly period would get old after awhile! My holistic md wants me to use progesterone cream as part of a longterm treatment, so I'll probably take the micronor for awhile then switch to bioidentical, I just hope the side effects are tolerable for the 6-9 months I'm on it.
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Post by disturbedme on Oct 10, 2011 19:31:51 GMT -5
Brussie: I have decided to try the Micronor. I've heard good and bad reviews. For some, they had bad spotting and bleeding for long periods of time. Or gaining weight, acne, etc. And there are a few that have NO side effects and bleed only once and don't have a period for the rest of the time they are on it!!!!!! I am hoping I am like that. I don't think I could stand bleeding for months at a time. Spotting might not be so bad, but definitely after a while that too would get kind of annoying. :-\
I am not going to start it until my period is over though (I was thinking of starting the first day of my period, but I usually have so much pain on my period, I am on tons of pain pills and not sure how that interferes/interacts with birth control). I ovulated about five days ago and I don't know if it would be a good or bad idea to start it right now (I picked it up from the pharmacy today). My period will start around October 18.
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Post by redwood on Oct 11, 2011 23:29:52 GMT -5
I think you're supposed to start the mini-pill the first day of your period (you take it every day and don't stop). I'm not sure if pain pills would affect anything. My guess is that they would not, but that's just my guess.
Yeah, I know it's confusing as I was the same way as was worried about using the pill again and thought the mini-pill was the "lesser evil." I didn't have any other side effects except the biweekly period. Maybe only one of them was a period and the other was spotting. But they seemed like the same level of bleeding, so I couldn't tell the difference and it happened like clockwork every 2 weeks. I thought eventually it would stop, but it didn't. Every one is different though, you guys might not have this problem at all.
Now my period is going weird on bio-identical progesterone. I had spotting on day 19 for about 4 days and then I didn't get my period on day 28 as I usually do, even when I stopped my progesterone (there's no way I'm pregnant). Now it's day 14 of my cycle and I'm getting cramps and spotting. It was normal for a year on this, except for one month were it was every 2 weeks like on the mini-pill. But I'm baffled as to what is happening now.
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Post by brussie on Oct 14, 2011 0:41:46 GMT -5
Disturbedme, please keep me posted. I would love to hear about your experience w/micronor. I might hold off on micronor for now. When I went in to do a follow up ultrasound, the endometrioma had already ruptured, so my lap is on hold for now. I had some pain that woke me up and made me miss work a few weeks ago, I'm betting that's when it ruptured. Since I wasn't throwing up and crying on the floor like last time, I didn't think that it had ruptured. But the tech said my first one that ruptured might have been orange sized based on the remnants while this last one was more silver dollar sized. Either way, it's still bad because the rupturing enometriomas spew out tissue that causes further implants and scarring from what I understand.
Redwood, I'm going to try the progest cream for the next few cycles and see how I fare. Have you had good results up until now? Sorry to hear about your cycle getting out of whack. I wish hormones were less complicated! Have you had your hormone levels tested?
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Post by redwood on Oct 14, 2011 16:48:48 GMT -5
I had my hormones tested a few months ago. I usually have a regular cycle though. I guess my period was just 2 weeks late for some reason. Might be because I had lasik eye surgery the day before it was due. maybe it was the stress from that that made it late. who knows. I am also 46, so it could be the approaching menopause that may be causing this. I can only hope that menopause will rid me of endometriosis. there seems to be no one on this forum that has gone through natural menopause, so I have no reference for that. As for my hormones, my progesterone is through the roof because of my taking it and my estrogen varies. The estradiol is normal in the lower part of the range, but my estrone is higher than it should be and my estriol is normal high, but apparently this is the "good" estrogen, so it's not a bad thing.
I don't take OTC cream, I use 200mg progesterone troches. That does have an effect for me - less pain during my period. The OTC cream stuff didn't really change my pain, if I remember. It did make my cycle 28 days instead of 26 though. What you can get with a prescription is much stronger than the OTC creams. At least that's what I understand.
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Post by disturbedme on Oct 16, 2011 22:32:42 GMT -5
Redwood - once you have ovulated and are in the luteal phase, nothing can stop your period from coming... or make it late (with exception to maybe one or two things). If you haven't ovulated yet, then your cycle can definitely be extended and changed dramatically by stress, physical or mental.
The only thing that I know that can change the cycle during your luteal phase is things such as ovarian cysts. Your luteal phase is usually between a certain amount of days... like mine is 12 - 14. When I had the endometrioma, it was crazy messed up... between 7 - 10. Other than that, stress and outside sorts of things cannot change your period once you've already ovulated.
I hope that makes sense. I've kept track of my cycles using basal body temp and cervical mucus signs since 2006. So I know when I ovulate and always know when my period is going to start, etc.
Oh dear.... the progesterone cream didn't help your pain? That is what I am REALLY, REALLY hoping for me, because I cannot stand the pain!!!!! :-(
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Post by Karen on Oct 17, 2011 6:05:35 GMT -5
A hormonal imbalance can reduce your luteal phase as well. That's usually the most common cause. Progesterone us during luteal phase can extend it, among other things. My luteal phase varies widely, when I have one.
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Post by redwood on Oct 17, 2011 11:50:53 GMT -5
Karen tried the cream before going with oral progesterone too. Karen, did the OTC cream help your pain? I only tried it for about 2-3 months before going to a dr. to get a prescription for the troches. I don't temp or pay much attention to when I ovulate. At this point, I actually don't think I ovulate most months. You can still have a period and not ovulate at all. It's called an anovulatory period. Usually it's a shorter one. I can usually tell when I ovulate as there is a sensation in my ovary (it's a bit sore). when that happens, it's usually around days 12-14. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anovulatory_cyclethis becomes more common as you age, but can also be caused by other issues.
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Post by redwood on Oct 17, 2011 12:01:42 GMT -5
also, I wanted to say that even if the OTC cream didn't seem to decrease my pain much, it might be different for you. It may work for you, so you can just try it and see. So don't be discouraged! I just ended up needing a higher dose than what an OTC cream can give. I actually think I have an endometrioma on my abdominal wall. This is depressing as I know it will have to be removed surgically to get rid of it. It seems no hormones can make those disappear. They slow them down from growing, but they don't go away. At least that is my past experience.
This is a guess, of course, based on what my ultrasound said. But the dr. thinks it's an endometrioma rather than just endmetriosis tissue. It has it's own vascularity ans is 2.5cm. It seems that I seem to grow those rather than endo on its own. I don't have endo spreading everywhere ,but will form one endometrioma somewhere. I just really don't want to have surgery again. I've already had two: lap for ovarian endometrioma and a big open surgery for a liver endometrioma. Although this one could probably be done with a lap. I would hope so. It's not on an organ at least. My gyn referred me to a gastro doc who I don't see until January to discuss this and I'm to have an MRI at some point (just waiting for an appt.).
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Post by disturbedme on Oct 17, 2011 19:04:45 GMT -5
Redwood - I'm so sorry. :-( That is what scares me about endo the most: endometriomas! I don't want another one either and it freaks me out! Did yours grow while you were doing the progesterone anyway? :-\ I wanted to do some kind of treatment that would keep anymore from growing... And I thought doing the progesterone cream would be my first stop before actual fake hormones.... but sometimes I think the fake hormones are better at controlling it, from the experiences I've heard.
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Post by redwood on Oct 17, 2011 20:32:17 GMT -5
well, I had my last surgery in 9/2005 and I didn't want to take BCP, so I went to a naturopth recommended my my GP. She didn't seem to think I should take progesterone so she didn't prescribed. I was like you and wanted to prevent another endometrioma from forming. Then in 1/2007 I started taking the minipill as I was afraid of getting another endometrioma, although I didn't have symptoms and so my gyn suggested the mini-pill. I took that for 6 months with bleeding every 2 weeks. Then I stopped because of the bleeding. That was supposed to be preventative. I wonder if I had stuck with it, if it would have prevented this new growth. I didn't have symptoms from it until around 9/2009. At first I wasn't quite sure if it was endo, but then it was very typically only happening around my period. Again my naturopath didn't seem to think I needed to take progesterone. Finally, she suggested the cream in 4/2010 (I had gone to see her 1/2010). Then in 7/2010 I went to see a GP doctor who specialized in bioidenticals and that's when I started. So I started AFTER I had the synmptoms, so it was already there. I wish I could know if it really does prevent it. I guess you really can never know as if you take it and don't get another one, you don't really know if you wouldn't have gotten one anyway. For sure it has improved the symptoms since I have started taking it.
as far as fake hormones go, I really don't know which is better, although the bioidentical seems to have less side effects for me. I had asked my gyn about the difference (what SHE felt was the difference) and she said the progestins were stronger so you can use a amount of them. That's all she said.
yeah, it can drive you crazy. I was very unsure about what to do also and different doctors will recommend different things. I bounced back and forth about doing it the natural way and doing it the conventional way. I've mostly done natural though.
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