Any teachers here? This is CRAZY!

[lizzylou]

My 5 year old came home from school today with his shoes untied, when I asked him about it he told me they came untied and his kindergarden teacher refused to tie them for him, told him to just tuck in the laces, and that he should tell me i need to buy him velcro shoes. Is this normal??

This SUPER irritates me on the following levels

#1 - Most 5 year olds are learning to tie their shoes, it's a process and I would assume most teachers of 5 year olds, would understand that and if you DON'T want to help them, go teach 3rd grade

#2 - There are some health concerns about wearing lose shoes (shoe slipping and spraining and ankle, falling and breaking something, etc).

#3 - NOWHERE was I told that he needed velcro shoes if he didn't know how to tie

#4 - I spent about $40 on 2 new pairs of shoes for school, and now I'm supposed to tuck them in the back of the closet and go out and buy NEW shoes with velcro. And hopefully when he knows how to tie the brand new shoes I bought will still fit. Kids grow like crazy, so most likely not.

#5 - There might be a legitimate issue, maybe she was busy and he misunderstood. Maybe his shoes are coming untied all the time, maybe it's something else. Either way, she has 3 ways to contacts me (phone, e-mail, and a note in his bag). She should be contacting ME directly if there is a concern, not telling my 5 year old to tell me to buy him new shoes. he's 5 for goodness sake, he still needs me to remind him to brush his teeth!

[omaklackey]

I refused to teach my kids to tie their own shoes until they were older. I mean really... why do we expect these five year olds to have that kind of dexterity? Did you know that shoe tying is one of the first skills to go for older people? For his sake maybe you should buy him velcro that way he doesn't need any help to get his shoes on and off? Most kids appreciate the indepence it gives them being able to do things for themselves. My eight year old and seven year old learned last year and can do it well and fast now instead of struggling. HOWEVER.. telling your five year old that, not necessarily appropriate!! As a parent I would feel as outraged as you obviously do. I work with 25 youngsters twice a week in drama and I know that most teachers are swamped with overstuffed classrooms. Hopefully she was just having a bad day!

[Karen]

I'm a former teacher (high school level so that's totally different) and I can't speak for someone else by any means, but in my experience, teachers have a lot on their plates, a lot of things they are required to do, and are there to TEACH, not to DO things for kids, yet a lot of parents have expectations of teachers doing stuff for their kids that parents should be doing. Could she have communicated that better? Maybe. Could she have helped him? Yeah, probably, but at the end of the day, teachers are human. So many people put them up on a pedestal, that they should be perfect, and they aren't. I'm not saying she reacted in the proper way by any means, but I get her point. If a kid can't tie his shoes on his own, he shouldn't have shoes that need to be tied. Kind of seems like a no-brainer. I'm not bashing you by any means, just trying to show you the other side of the coin, where she might be coming from. The only way to know for sure, though, is to ask her about it if you think it's worth discussing. But is it worth talking to your kid's teacher because you bought your kids shoes that he's not ready for?

[lizzylou]

Karen - I do get what your saying, and I understand it. However if a kids shoes come untied during the day, your so swamped you can't take 5 seconds to retie them? I guess my largest issue is that she isn't communicating a concern through me first. Either this is the first time and just refuses, or this is an ongoing issue, and instead of giving me a heads up right away, she just starts refusing to tie his shoes and relays a message to me through a 5 year old?

we work on the skill, but he gets very frustrated with it. So we are working on it and I don't expect her to teach him, but I expect communication.

[Karen]

Yeah, I can see that, but then again, think all about a teacher's priorities throughout the day. You expect her to drop what she's doing so she can call you to tell you that your kid is struggling with a skill that you already know he's struggling with? And if she called you to tell you this, would you have reacted any differently and gotten irritated with her face to face? Again, I'm not trying to be harsh, but that's the reality. And think of it this way - yeah, helping one kid tie his shoes is one thing, but multiply that by the number of kids in the class. That's a lot of shoe tying throughout the day!

When I was teaching, some parents I dealt with had extremely crazy expectations about what it meant to be a teacher. And again, teachers are people, they are human. They don't teach classes in college about how to please parents all the time, how to juggle the responsibilities, etc. They are taught how to teach, and the rest of it boils down to personality, priorities, comfort level, etc. In our every day life at work, there are people that do things all the time that we wouldn't do that way, but since it's nothing earth shattering, we all just shrug and say 'oh, well' and move on without giving it a second thought. This is one of those things.

Again, not trying to be harsh, just trying to point out that in the whole scheme of things, it's not worth getting your undies in a bunch!

[lizzylou]

It's not that she didn't call me to tell me he's struggling with a skill. She told HIM to tell me that I need to buy him different shoes and that he can't wear his if he can't tie them. And yes, if my child's clothing is causing an issue, I do expect her to contact me in some way. If it is her classroom policy, she should have said something to the parents before there was an issue, considering most of the other kids also don't know how to tie.

I assume when your a high school teacher you expect there to be some level of the normal high school drama and attitudes. It comes with the territory of teaching children that age. Same goes with kids this young. If you don't want to help them, and don't have time to communicate a problem, then you should maybe be teaching a grade where the kids are older.

I COMPLETELY get that teachers are busy and have a lot going on throughout the day. I guess my issue isn't her policy, the issue is my son's shoes half-falling off his feet the whole day, because she wouldn't tie them and nobody said anything to me. There is obviously an problem and I wasn't told a thing about it. That irritates me. Not just a phone call, a little note in his bag, and e-mail, anything!

[Karen]

So let me get this straight - she DID communicate the need for a change in shoes, but because she didn't communicate it in the way you expected her to, she should rethink her career path? That's what it sounds like you're implying, and that's completely unrealistic. She's a teacher, not a mind reader!! So now it's on you to bring it up and tell her what your expectations are, to ask her about the shoe thing. I'd be willing to bet it's something she just mentioned to him in passing and didn't give it a second thought.

[JC]

So I asked my mom her opinion. She teaches all elementary grades K-6. I asked her if she would tie a child's shoes if they ask her and she replied with "yes." Then I told her your story and she said, " if it is a chronic problem then I wont do it. The parent needs to get better functioning shoes."

Here's what I think went wrong. First, I think she should have tied his shoes. That's very unsafe for a 5 year old to be walking around with untied shoes. BUT, I think she should have told you personally about the shoe issue. If she doesn't want to keep tying his shoes everyday then she should have come to you and told you that he needs a wardrobe that isn't disruptive to the classroom. My mom said that shoe tying is a "huge pain in the ass" with that age because you're distracted from teaching and watching over the children, but most parents buy buckle shoes or velcro because it's just easier, in general, to get your kids ready so it's generally not a problem for her.

The first priority is the safety of the children. She should have tied his shoes. Second priority, she should have addressed it with you personally (phone call, email, note in bag, in person, whatever). It should not be your son's responsibility to worry about his shoes, its yours.

[caffeinewh*re]

To Omaklackey, out of criosity, why do you think kids dont' have the "dexterity" to tie their own shoes? Is this like a not potty training your kid type issue? Have you tried the two bunny ears, cross them, pull through? I've seen 2 year olds who can do it!

[omaklackey]

nope, I pottie trained my kids quite young. My oldest had a delay on fine and motor skills so I didn't worry about him. I just think we to often push our kids to do things they shouldn't have to. Did you know that kids didn't used to go to school until they were eight? Now we are shipping our kids to preschool at 3... ? Legally our state says you don't have to register your kids for school until they are eight, so that's interesting I think... My kids learned quickly in one day then the frustration many kids have and then do run around with their shoes untied which is unsafe. I think the teacher though in this question was probably just having a bad day and blurted out the shoe thing. Lizzy Lou, I hope you do talk to her but if your like me sometimes its best to wait a few days and then ask her if it was on ongoing thing or if it just happened this once.

[JC]

I can actually remember being really proud of learning how to tie my shoes after practicing and practicing. In retrospect, it taught me that hard work has good results.
I personally would rather not wait until things get easier. I don't think teaching your kids to tie your shoes at 5 years old is expecting too much. It's such a basic skill. Frustration is a part of life and learning to overcome that frustration speaks volumes when you've achieved success.

Just my humble opinion...... take it or leave it.

[pretty]

OK, now I see why parenting is hard! lol

My aunt Jane, now 75, taught me and both my brothers how to tie our shoes (yes with the bunny ears, sleeper!) and we all still talk about it. Infact my husband and I joke about getting pregnant asap so aunt jane will still remember how to teach the kid how to tie their shoes ha ha ha. You guys I can really see both sides of this issue, how the teacher really has a lot more to worry about than one kids shoes (what if everyone's shoes come untied at once! up here in Alaska they take off their shoes in class too, what a nightmare for a kindergarten teacher if they are all tie shoes!) but I also see Lizzy's side, since being a parent is so personal, you must feel like crap that your kid was singled out. Well live and learn right, don't take it too personal, you don't want something small like shoes to color your son's and your relationship to his teacher for the rest of the school year. Sometimes even when we feel we are 'right' it's better to just move on, rise above and recognize that this may not be worth getting attached to.
Another aunt of mine has 2 school age daughters, is on full disability, and gets really wrapped up in a lot of stuff that to those of us with full time jobs seems really petty and strange, but hey, that's her prerogative. I do know that each year she seems to pick out one issue and just obsess the hell out of it, while the rest of the family just gets out of her way because she's so dang stubborn and won't back down. While I respect her convictions and dedication to her kids, sometimes I think "god, I share her stubbornness, hope I don't end up this type of parent (if I get lucky enough to have a kid that is!)" anyhow, I think it has been overall more damaging to both her kids to have a mom who is always ready to 'throw down' over any little thing, and always bitching about this or that teacher, than the issues that she first got upset over. I think it can be really hard for little kids to deal with when their parent is mad at their teacher. Isnt it just easier to go buy him some Vans for school, and then each night when he gets home have him practice tying for one minute, with a prize if he does it himself? That's how I taught my little cousin when he also had to wear velcros since he couldn't tie. We just kept trying and soon he was able to tie, and it was pretty darn cute to see him help his little friends....

anyhow I'm not a mom, but just my 2 cents anyway.

[JC]

Sept 24, 2010 14:34:35 GMT -5 @pretty said:

OK, now I see why parenting is hard! lol

Well live and learn right, don't take it too personal, you don't want something small like shoes to color your son's and your relationship to his teacher for the rest of the school year. Sometimes even when we feel we are 'right' it's better to just move on, rise above and recognize that this may not be worth getting attached to.

This is an absolutely wonderful outlook on this whole thing.

[JC]

OK straight from a Kindergarten teacher's mouth (my mom):
"-I prefer laces on my own kids, you knew how to tie your shoes by the time you hit kindergarten.
-At work kids trip and fall or get tangled up in bikes with untied laces-dangerous!
-And it takes time to tie 40 shoes and there are also personal contact issues when tying shoes! (we live in an age where people are sue happy and I some teachers are concerned with being sued over touching someone's kids)
-Thus we request for velcro when kids can't tie their own shoes!"

[lizzylou]

Karen - I'll try to clear this up because I feel like I'm being misunderstood. I was NEVER told about her policy about not trying shoes. I was NEVER told that if they can't tie their shoes ALL shoes have to be velcro. I was NEVER told there was an issue with my son's shoes coming untied. I think sending a message through a 5 year old is NOT good communication.

She called me today and we talked. There is NOT a cronic issues with his shoes coming untied, but she explained that she doesn't have time to tie everyone's shoes. When i said if she doesn't want to tie shoes she should teach high school, I DID NOT say that she should rethink her career path, I didn't say she should go be a lawyer. And what I did mean was tying a shoe is part of a that age, it's a skill they are learning, it kind of comes with the territory. and I know teachers are busy, but if there is an issue she needs to take the time to communicate with me so I as a parent am aware.

And just so Everyone doesn't think I'm a crappy parent. We've been working on it, but he seems to get really frustrated easily when his fingers can't do it. I was told by his teacher today that often kids that age cant do it. Some can, some just aren't "ready". Although she did give me some different tips to try, which I think might really help him out.

I did get an apology from the teacher for not communicating her classroom policies with me and understands my concerns. She is going to be mentioning it in her next classroom newsletter because she didn't think of letting the parents know.

I'm not mad at her after speaking with her, I just wanted some communication.