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Post by Karen on Apr 19, 2011 18:23:00 GMT -5
Yay yay yay!!!! That's awesome! Are you feeling more confident in the powers of bio-identicals? Ha ha...
I haven't had a normal period in a while, and haven't ovulated since October I think? But, we finally figured out I have some thyroid issues that I suspect are throwing things off. This month I was supposed to stay at a lose dose until I ovulated instead of bumping up my dose on day 14 regardless of ovulation. Not the best move! By day 25 or so things just weren't feeling right - had a bit more pain and felt out of it - so I bumped up my dose anyway despite not ovulating yet. I did a urine test to look at my hormones in detail, though, so hopefully I'll get the results soon and get a better plan! I haven't had my levels tested in a while.
I'm SO glad things are working out! Despite the second period, are you noticing any side effects or are you feeling good??
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Post by redwood on Apr 20, 2011 14:49:31 GMT -5
The only side effects that I notice (and I think are caused by the progesterone) are foot cramps. I didn't usually get that before I took it. It's only when I'm pointing my toes though and doing aerial dance. In the beginning I felt a bit woozy when I increased my dose and I had swollen, sore breasts, but now those side effects are gone. So I feel good!
I have to do a urine test too. Maybe this coming month so I don't run out of my prescription. It's sooo expensive, but my NP wants me to do it before she will renew my prescription. My blood test signified I had a somewhat hypo thyroid, but maybe it's not enough to influence my periods. Does the urine test check the thyroid too? I know it's quite extension - better than blood tests, which will only test one type of estrogen too. Was yours a 24-hour urine test?
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Post by Karen on Apr 20, 2011 18:28:15 GMT -5
Hmm, I get foot cramps but I know I've gotten them for years. Interesting! It always seems to be the worst when I'm in Pilates!
And if you have some sort of hypothyroid, please get that addressed, too. I'm finding it can cause ALL sorts of issues! I'll post some info I found this weekend in the related health issues thread. The thyroid test was a blood test, insurance covered it and everything! Though be sure to have your T4 and T3 (though some won't test T3) checked as well - I found TSH doesn't necessarily give the whole picture no matter how much my docs have insisted 15+ year...
Back to the urine test, yes, it was a 24 hour test. I made the mistake of eating asparagus the day I did it and every time I opened the container it smelled AWFUL! That poor lab tech that had to analyze it. And, yes, it was pricey - $240... Just an FYI, mine had to be timed per my cycle - day 21, I believe, so might want to check with your doc and plan accordingly so she doesn't withhold that prescription! Anyway, I've been told the test can take a few weeks to get the results for. I'll post when I get them back!
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Post by samiam on Jun 9, 2011 14:55:47 GMT -5
Girls, I have a bit of a situation and hope someone has some insight...I was recently diagnosed with yet another cyst. I have been on Loestrin 24 for 6 months, but recently missed my period and was afraid with the pain I was having it may be an ectopic pregnancy. Well, thankfully it was not. But, obviously the birth control was not doing it's job since I ended up with another cyst. I live in a VERY conservative, very southern town, and when you mention bioidenticals, most doctors vigorously shake there heads and say, "NO! They don't work!" (This includes my current Gyno) Unfortunately the few doctors that do offer it in my area seem to generally only be interested in the beauty/anti-aging aspect of bioidenticals, and testing is ridiculously expensive. I really wish I could find someone that believed in natural treatment in my area, but so far have not been able to find anyone that didn't want to line their pocket first and foremost. I have been in touch with a compounding pharmacy in my area that offers bioidenticals and saliva testing. The pharmacist was extremely knowledgeable and helpful and completely shared my frustration about the lack of help from doctors in our area. He recommended starting with progesterone cream and then once I get my period, after so many days, they would do the saliva tests and see what I need exactly. He said they would take into consideration that I had already been on some progestrone. I know the bioidenticals have helped many of you with the endometriosis. But, my question is, has anyone had any success with it shrinking ovarian cysts? And what should I expect the first few days I am on it as far as side effects go? The pharmacist recommended starting on a smaller dose, 20 mg a day, until I did my saliva testing. Thanks for your help and insight!
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Post by Karen on Jun 9, 2011 17:57:19 GMT -5
I'm sorry, I don't have any experience with cysts so I'm afraid I can't answer that part of the question for you. I would, however, recommend reading a book by Dr. John Lee called "What your Doctor Won't Tell you About Pre-Menopause". He's the king when it comes to bio-identicals and I suspect that if there's info out there about progesterone and cysts, it'll be in there.
I'm glad you were able to find a sympathetic ear at the compounding pharmacy! The one thing I found is that if I start progesterone prior to ovulation, it can delay ovulation and extend my cycle. For most 'normal' people, it's only recommended to use it starting on day 14 (assuming a normal cycle). But, my doc and I agreed that to help with my particular symptoms, that I'll take a smaller dose from day 7-14, then increase it. I'm not saying you need to do the same, but might be something to consider when figuring out when in your cycle to try it out.
As for a low dose of progesterone, you shouldn't really notice any side effects. You may feel a bit warmer and maybe a bit drowsy, but if you apply it before bed, you shouldn't notice a thing. And at 20 mg, I wouldn't expect much of those, if anything.
Sorry I couldn't help you more. I have a small book by Dr. John Lee but it's the abbreviated version and only mentions diet changes to help with ovarian cysts/PCOS. Good luck, and let us know how it goes/if you have other questions/if you find any info about bio-identicals and cysts!
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Post by samiam on Jun 10, 2011 0:07:17 GMT -5
Thanks so much for the reply Karen. I will check out that book for sure. I am really beginning to wonder if I have PCOS as well as Endo cause I am just PLAGUED with these stupid cysts! Hopefully the bioidenticals will help out. I'll share my outcome of how everything goes.
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Post by redwood on Jun 21, 2011 23:57:28 GMT -5
So I finally did my 24 hour urine test and got the results today. My estradiol is on the low side, which is the one tested before by a blood test, BUT my estrone is high and my estroil is high too. The estriol is the good estrogen though, so that's not bad. It's the estrone that I need to lower. Also, my progesterone was through the roof (double the top end of the scale), so it makes my NP think that we should slowly try to lower it. She suggested that I take DIM (which I took before) and iodine lower the estrone. Also, it did test my T3 and T4 and they aren't low, but the ratio is off somehow. Can't remember how exactly. I also have slightly low DHEA and low testosterone. She didn't want me to supplement testosterone right now, but said I could take a small dose of DHEA. She said my cortisol was low and suggested I use licorice for that. I read about all these side effects of licorice root though, so I feel a bit nervous about using it now.
This past month, I had more pain than usual. Nothing major, but just noticed it more. Not sure why. Maybe because I didn't follow the diet strictly this weekend as I was traveling? Hard to do it while traveling and needing to eat out.
So for now I'm still on progesterone 200mg for days 6-27, but I will start by taking half that for days 6 and 7 and see how that goes first and then maybe more days the following month, etc.
How are you doing, Karen?
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Post by Karen on Jun 22, 2011 6:21:54 GMT -5
It sounds like you and I had the same urine test! And we had somewhat similar results. ALL my estrogens were low, and my progesterone was high. Testosterone was super super low for me, DHEA was low, and cortisol was low.
Like you, we decided to taper back my progesterone a bit. Instead of 75 mg (day 7-14) and 150 mg (day 15-period), I'm dropping down to 50 mg (day 7-14). I think this month, I'll drop down to either 125 mg or 100 mg day 15-period.
I've been on DHEA before but it altered my cycles. The urine test revealed that the enzymes needed to put to use all these hormones in my body were really off so we're going to try DHEA again after I finish a month of mega doses of vitamins and supplements, see if that kicks my enzymes into gear. Essentially, though, DHEA is the precursor for sex hormones and they can convert into any of the hormones, not just testosterone. I think it'd be a good start for you, though. What dose are you on?
I know I've been on supplements for my cortisol levels that have licorice root in them, but I don't think they were high doses. What are the side effects? I'm not aware of them.
If your pain increased while you were traveling, I'd probably chalk that up to diet. How has your pain been otherwise? I still have small spurts here and there, but nothing in comparison to what it used to be and I'm incredibly grateful for that!
Oh, one other thing I wanted to mention - when I first started progesterone, my doc had me stop taking it on day 28 and it didn't force a period, so I never did it again. But, a few months ago, I ran out of my progesterone and missed ONE dose and got my period. So now, instead of having marathon-long cycles, I'm going to stop on day 28. It's worked two times now, I think? Makes me feel a bit more normal, and since I'm kind of surprising my body with my period, it doesn't have a week or two to build up to absolute hell. I'm hopeful it continues to work!
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Post by 1234 on Jun 22, 2011 8:14:13 GMT -5
Karen, do you know what is going on in that "week or two to build up to absolute hell"? That's how I'd describe my cycles, and I was wondering with all of your research if you'd figured out why the weeks delaying before a period are so full of pain?
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Post by redwood on Jun 22, 2011 13:15:24 GMT -5
Karen,
Did you send your urine test to Renton, WA? That is where mine went, although my NP is in Vancouver. Or was yours a local lab doing it? Just wondered..... If so, yours was much cheaper than mine, like half the price! Anyway, my estrogen wasn't low actually, it was high EXCEPT the estradiol (the middle one) was the lower end of the normal range. But the other two, estrone and estriol were high. The only issue is the estrone as the estriol is the "good" estrogen, or so I've heard.
I'm on just 5mg of DHEA. The pills are 10mg, but I am cutting them in half at the suggestion of my NP.
My pain has mostly been nonexistent, except a twinge here and there. If I feel anything, it's the first day of my period and then a few days after my period is over. This month, I had first day of period pain and that was BEFORE my travels, so in that case, it wasn't the diet that affected it. Not sure what it was. The other pain came after my travels, so that could have been affected by my diet.
I also just read that DHEA can be converted to estrone, so that would be bad for me. Maybe it's not a good idea to take it? I certainly don't want to increase my estrone, as that's what I'm trying to decrease! I'm taking DIM again for that, and drinking rosemary tea.
High doses of licorice can cause high blood pressure and fluid retention. Not sure what high doeses are though.
This is from wikipedia: "Excessive consumption of liquorice or liquorice candy is known to be toxic to the liver[25] and cardiovascular system, and may produce hypertension[26] and edema.[27] In occasional cases blood pressure has increased with excessive consumption of liquorice tea, but such occasions are rare and reversible when the herb is withdrawn.[28] Most cases of hypertension from liquorice were caused by eating too much concentrated liquorice candy.[29] Doses as low as 50 grams (2 oz) of liquorice daily for two weeks can cause a significant rise in blood pressure. The liver effects can lead to a weight gain from fluid retention of 6 pounds 3 kg of fluid in as little as 3-4 days, but immediately when liquorice is removed from the diet the weight just drops off again as the liver once again achieves equilibrium and the body flushes out the excess fluid."
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Post by Karen on Jun 22, 2011 18:41:22 GMT -5
Hm, I don't remember where I sent it in, it was pre-labeled! But I believe the name of the place was Meridian Valley?
You're on a very, very low dose of DHEA so I wouldn't worry too much about converting to estrone. I think a standard dose is about 20 mg or so. Obviously keep an eye on it, but I think the risk is lower.
I just checked and one of the supplements I am on has 75 mg/licorice root per serving, and I was taking 2.5 servings a day. Hope that helps give you some perspective on doses?
Oh, and yes, you're right - estriol IS the good estrogen and is what helps your body fend off estrogen related cancers. Which, ironically, is the one form of estrogen that is typically excluded from the standard synthetic HRT regimen...
I'm sorry you're still having a bit of pain, but I hope it's considerably less than it was before being on progesterone! Good luck tapering down a bit. I hope it goes well for both of us!!
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Post by Karen on Jun 22, 2011 18:49:52 GMT -5
Karen, do you know what is going on in that "week or two to build up to absolute hell"? That's how I'd describe my cycles, and I was wondering with all of your research if you'd figured out why the weeks delaying before a period are so full of pain? Ok, here's the skinny. In the first half of your cycle, estrogen is the dominant hormone. When you ovulate, your temps rise because there's a rise on progesterone, and then progesterone is dominant during the second half of your cycle. When you get your period, your temps go back down, which signals the drop in progesterone. Are you with me so far? A lot of women with endo are estrogen dominant, which means they don't have enough progesterone to 'balance out' the estrogen in their system. So, when progesterone is supposed to be dominant after ovulation, in loose terms, it may not be dominant enough. Thus, some of us have had great success supplementing with progesterone. The typical girl would only supplement with progesterone after ovulation through her period, but some of us special girls supplement from day 7-period. I have a lower dose during the first part of my cycle and a higher dose in the second half of my cycle to mimic that hormone balance a bit better. The result is - voila - a lot less pain for some of us! It didn't happen right away and took some time to adjust the dose. But, in my mind, it essentially has the benefit of the standard BC prescription for endo pain but without the hormonal side effects of synthetic BC. I will NEVER EVER go back to BC pills. Note: It won't prevent pregnancy, though, and may in fact make you more fertile if a hormonal imbalance is part of the problem. My theory for a hellish period from time to time despite being on progesterone supplementation is that my cycles are so irregular and can be very long. When they're mega-long, well, that just means that there's something more going on and I can have a mega awful period as a result. Does that make sense?
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Post by 1234 on Jun 22, 2011 21:01:04 GMT -5
Thanks, Karen. This is really helpful. I'm going to keep temping for a bit to see what's going on with me. I don't even know what my hormones are doing, and hope the temping will help. Thanks again for the clear explanations. I can tell you were a teacher!
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Post by pretty on Jun 22, 2011 21:02:31 GMT -5
I know right? karen is the BEST explainer ever.
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Post by Karen on Jun 22, 2011 21:20:49 GMT -5
No prob! If you haven't figured it out, I'm passionate about hormones! I really think tempting will help you decipher what's going on and will provide you and your doc with some valuable information!
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