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Post by alivenkicking on Jun 16, 2012 19:23:05 GMT -5
just to throw in my experience: i recently stopped taking BIP (twice daily troches) which i was taking post excision surgery to stop my period. [karen- great info, wish i knew it before!!] my doctor didn't know how to advise me and left me in the hands of my compounding pharmacy - great, helpful, knowledgeable people, but they hadn't used BIP for suppression before and guided me the best they knew how. so i didn't bleed, but i had alll my other symptoms on a regular 27 day cycle. i supplemented with cream and at night in case the troches were contributing to my nausea; all in all about 150 mg. i didn't have any really noticeable side effects from it, but it could have been making my pain worse...
so that went on for over a year when i decided i was spending too much money on something that was clearly not working. the tapering was no fun - it works like valium on the brain so there can be increased anxiety, sleeplessness, and period symptoms while weaning off. i stayed on the cream at night, and the two periods i've had since i stopped the troches have been AMAZING. full-on bleeding (weird to get used to again, even freaked me out a bit i must say- bright red healthy blood???!), but totally manageable cramping and minimal nausea, with ZERO debilitating fatigue and dizziness i usually get. i did have a couple of suckier days each time, but even then i was able to manage it with ibuprofen.
so this also coincided with three months of pelvic floor physical therapy last summer, over a year of energy healing, 3 years of endo diet, and weaning off of two psychotropic medications, so i can't really say 100% what caused what. but i don't miss the twice a day troches!!
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Post by Karen on Jun 16, 2012 20:29:21 GMT -5
I'm really surprised you were able to suppress your periods on it! I've never heard of it used that way. I knew you were on it for a while, but I don't recall you using it to suppress your periods! I was on 150 mg several times and it never had that effect. Granted, there was a stretch where I didn't get my period for months, but I chalk that up to the awful thyroid med I was on at the time that essentially shut my body down.
Progesterone should only be used to mimic what the body does on its own. No wonder you didn't see any benefits from it! Did you take it every single day?
(Oh, and I was super surprised when I started having periods with bright red blood, too! PPT helped for a few months and then it went back to the yucky stuff, but after the right thyroid med - voila - bright red again! Crazy how color of blood can be a sign of what's going on inside!)
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Post by alivenkicking on Jun 16, 2012 22:30:48 GMT -5
i think i only suppressed it enough to stop either the accumulation of the lining completely, or the shedding. i'm guessing my lining wasn't accumulating because the RED came with the first real flow, very little of the murky ick that i would expect if it had been hanging out in there forever. i really did the whole suppression thing pretty blindly, couldn't get my hands on the info i needed so was pretty much winging it with some help on the side. but i agree, not a good way to go. it was my way of trying to go along with the surgeon's order to stop all flow without returning to synthetics. i took it twice a day, i so do not miss those damn troches! so the no flow order is just based on the retrograde theory, right? that implants are caused by blood backing up the fallopian tubes? after reading dr. redwine's book, i don't think that theory has it all right...
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Post by redwood on Jun 18, 2012 12:17:34 GMT -5
hmmm, I hadn't known that there was someone else on here that had been taking the troches. I also took them and it was every day for 5 months and then the next year I was breaking for 5 days every month for my period. It never stopped my period, but made it lighter. The only month I had no pain at all was at 200mg every day in dec. 2010. I did still bleed, but it was light. After that I had to switch to a new Dr. in Vancouver after I moved up here from Colorado and the I could only find an NP and she was against taking it every day and wanted me to break for my period AT LEAST and it never worked as well again for me. It was worse for a few months and then it was pretty good for several months after that and then it got worse again. I stayed with the 200mg level and my NP never wanted to increase it but keep trying to lower my estrogen instead. It finally worked, but then my symptoms weren't any better than when the estrogen was higher (they were actually a bit worse by that time).
So I wonder now if I had stuck with the 200mg EVERY DAY if my pain would have stayed away. I had to stop taking troches though as they started bothering my gums and tongue and the cream experiment was awful for me. Did that happen to you at all with the troches? Irritating your gums? It was weird though as it was fine for so long and then I had a reaction after all that time. I didn't wean off when I stopped. I just stopped for my period and then started taking Visanne right after. I didn't know you had to wean off it. My Dr. didn't mention that, but then she doesn't treat endo with BIP. I didn't go to my NP again after I started the Visanne as it worked to get rid of my pain (and period). I just now wonder if it would have worked the same way if I had taken the BIP every day. It's sad I had only that one month that worked the best and then I had to switch (ran out of troches so I needed a new prescription) to a new way of taking it. I KNOW that the usual way to take progesterone is not to take it every day like that, but I don't think it would have worked for me as when I tried to lower the amount taken for days 5-12 like my NP wanted me to, it caused a lot more pain for me (and more bleeding).
My period was red though, while I was on the troches.
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Post by ncampo on Feb 27, 2013 5:44:09 GMT -5
Trying to prep for dr appt tomorrow. How can bio-identicals help with endo? I am 37 and have my uterus and one ovary (other removed more than 10 yrs ago). Thank you!
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Post by hellsbells on Feb 27, 2013 7:48:52 GMT -5
Hi ncampo - the whole thread is about how they can help so can I suggest you have a look from the start? Not sure if you have or not. Also would you like to introduce yourself by starting a thread in the introduction section, that way evceryone can welcome you and say hi
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Post by Karen on Jan 18, 2014 9:47:33 GMT -5
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Post by tanyan on Feb 16, 2014 18:03:47 GMT -5
I had been using progesterone cream monthly for several months with mixed results. I've also been temping my cycles to see the effects of progesterone on my cycle. Some months I used the cream from the end of my period until the start of my next period (lower dose from period - ovulation, higher dose from ovulation to period as was suggested for women with endo to keep estrogen in check). Other times, I'd just use it from ovulation to my period (as is suggested for women under normal circumstances). Only once did it lengthen my luteal phase (length between ovluation and period). Most months, it was 7-8 days, which is really, low, but one time I was able to get it up to 12 days on the cream. Because I wasn't seeing drastic results and had a hunch I still wasn't getting enough progesterone based on my luteal phase, I decided to find a doc that knew hormones. And I found one! A few months ago, I started on 100 mg prometrium orally. 21 days on, 7 days off. When my period came, I was supposed to go off again for 7 days. I was on progesterone cream at the time and started prometrium mid-cycle. It took me forever to ovulate and I ended up having an 87 day cycle! Hey, I'm not complaining, though... My luteal phase jumped to 13 days, which was an indication that I was getting more progesterone! Best part? My daily nagging pain was GONE with a few minor exceptions here and there when I was on it. (When I was off it, I had some cramps that kind of sucked.) My doc did a blood draw after I had ovulated to check my hormone levels - estrogen was kind of low and my progesterone was now up in the normal/near high range on the prometrium. But, I started having some spotting and my hands were a bit tingly - not bad or anything, just noticeable - so my doc switched me to a compounded formula. The compounded formula doesn't have any other additives, artificial colors, etc. that prometrium does. She also lowered my dose to see if my spotting would go away, thought it might be a slightly higher dose than I needed. So she dropped me down to 75 mg/day orally. Within 2 days the spotting stopped (don't know if that was coincidence or not). So far, so good! It's really thrown off my cycles, though they were never really regular to begin with. I've read that progesterone suppresses your luetinizing hormone. Anyway, it's raised my basal body temp by a few tenths of a degree so it's a bit harder to tell if I ovulated or not now. But, the impact it's had on my pain has been great! I've gotten a much better control of pain in the last year with diet changes and supplements and physical therapy, but this seems to be what my body needs. I'm looking forward to monitoring it and seeing how much better things can get in the long run! I also talked to her about my lack of a sex drive, so she put my on 2 mg of testosterone cream. I can tell my face gets a bit flushed after I use it, but so far, no real change there. then down to 75 mg compounded orally.
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Post by tanyan on Feb 16, 2014 18:04:21 GMT -5
Yeah, I'd likely give it a cycle or two to see what happens and how your body reacts. And the dosage may have to be played with a bit, too. Progesterone has a drowsy effect, so if you're taking it at any other time than before bed, you're going to feel it. I got the loopy feeling a bit at first, but that went away, either because my dosage was lowered or I got used to it. The troches don't sound fun! I'm not quite sure how those get absorbed into your system you'd best defer to your doc on how that all works. And as for the cream, they can MAKE it strong enough! It gets absorbed into your skin and gets stored into the fatty tissue just below it and is released throughout the day. I know the dosages can be a bit different than ingested dosages just because of the delivery method. I believe the pharmacy I use has info for practitioners - it's Women's International Pharmacy if you want to google it. As for me and my experience? It's FANTASTIC! I still had a tiny bit of spotting mid-cycle this month, though very, very minor and only for 3 days. Much less than last month. My pain is still mostly non-existent most days, though poor eating habits while on vacation the last few days have awoken the pain a tiny bit. But, still, all in all, this is by far the best treatment I've tried so far! BTW - am reading a book on anti-aging medicine "Life Extension Revolution" by Miller (don't let the name fool you - it's all about getting your body into balance and working optimally so there's less chance for disease) and they have an entire chapter devoted to hormones. There's no mention of endo, but it's all about getting the right ratio of hormones. The best part? They explain it all and - the best part - give ranges for what your test results and ratios should be for optimal function. It's worth reading even if for just that chapter alone! That chapter is quickly becoming my bio-identical bible.
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Post by tanyan on Feb 16, 2014 18:27:51 GMT -5
Hi ladies, I'm in Australia. I'm so glad I found this blog re. Bio hormones! It's really hard to find much feedback on them. In Australia it's really hard to find a doc that prescribes BHRT as it's prescription only. So anyway I have Endo and after 6 hellish months on zoladex my Endo is back with a vengeance only after 2 months off it.In the form of stabbing pains in my ovary. My periods have always been regular with no excessive bleeding. So my hormone specialist has prescribed 400mg bio progesterone troches. 1/2 sublingual in morning and 1/2 evening vaginally every day and stop for my period. He said he is starting on a high dose for the endo as to put my body in a pseudo pregnancy for 2 months and then drop back. I started 2 days ago and OMG i feel like I've taken a tranquilizer. I'm so dizzy and fatigued i cant even leave the house, with mild nausea and loss of appetite. I'm mid cycle and last night i had the most shocking ovarian pains and pelvic pains that i couldn't stand up! like really bad period pains but no period. I had to pop the pain killers and then worried all night what is going on?? Has anyone else had these pains happen after starting bio progesterone or is it the high dose?(my gynoe wanted me to take primulot n which is a high dose synthetic progesterone which is why I'm trying the bio instead) Sorry for my ramble. Any feedback appreciated x
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Post by Karen on Feb 16, 2014 21:47:27 GMT -5
I haven't experienced the pains you described, but the fatigue and side effects make sense as that's a very high dose! Progesterone does have a tranquilizer effect, which is why it's often taken only at night. At that dose, I can imagine it knocks you out quite a bit!
It seems as though your doctor is trying to swing your hormones in the other direction. In my experience, bio identical hormone use is more to balance your hormones to the ideal levels so your body works as intended. If you continue to have pain, please talk to your doctor about it. The dose you are on may be too much.
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Post by tanyan on Feb 17, 2014 18:36:28 GMT -5
Thanks Karen, yes he is treating me with BHRT the same as you would with the synthetic POP like crrazette or primulot n i guess so as to trick the body into pseudo pregnancy. I spoke to my specialist and he said to now just take half the dose (200mg) now at night inserted vaginally and see how it goes. I still feel blah ☹. Really flat, lethargic, spacey, loss of appetite and i also have heart palpitations..? I'm off now to get my US on my ovaries to see what the hell is going on in there! xx
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Post by tanyan on Feb 17, 2014 19:39:55 GMT -5
Hi girls, sorry but another question.. bio progesterone make you feel nauseous? Just started 200mg daily. If so does it wear off or will i have to drop the dose again?
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Post by shoregurl on Jul 27, 2014 3:50:45 GMT -5
Hey does anyone know if you can use Natural Progesterone cream with anti depressants? Thanks
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Post by Karen on Jul 27, 2014 6:39:30 GMT -5
Shouldn't be a problem as progesterone is identical to what your body makes. However, a high dose can be equivalent to a tranquilizer - progesterone has a calming affect and too much can be too calming. It's really important to use bioidentical hormones to supplement to where your levels should be and no more.
There's also some info out there that suggests progesterone can help with depression, so keep an eye on that. You may or may not need to adjust your dose.
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