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Post by ouchy on Feb 17, 2006 23:48:36 GMT -5
soooooo, soy might not be all that bad after all, as the phytoestrogens do compete with our own natural estrogen in binding to estrogen receptors. Here is a cool link about Black Cohosh and Soy and their phytoestrogenic effect on estrogen-related disorders, including endometriosis. www.adeeva.com/ForWeb-Adeeva_WHB_-_Trg_Module.pdf#search='cohosh%20endometriosis'
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Post by DINAH on Feb 21, 2006 10:31:55 GMT -5
Read this article, what should a person do eat soy or not?? PSoy and the Endometriosis Diet Many women who change their old diet for a diet to control endometriosis will be replacing the dairy and protein foods and substituting them with soy products. These will include soy milk, soy spreads, soy cheeses, soy based burgers and substitute meats, and many other alternative soy products. You need to avoid all modern soy based foods and food substitutes. The only safe soy foods are those that come from eastern traditions of fermented foods like miso, tempeh and tamari. These foods are safe enough for the healthy person, but for women with endometriosis their consumption needs to be minimal because of the high levels of phytoestrogens. There are thousands of recipe books loaded with so-called healthy meat alternatives, and 9 times out of 10 this includes alternative soy based products. People will be of the belief that their meat free, dairy free diet is safe and healthy, when in fact the opposite is true. This is why I had to trawl far and wide to find recipes for ‘Recipes for the Endometriosis Diet’ which were suitable, or adapting the recipe by removing the soy based ingredient or finding an alternative. This information is extracted from my book Recipes for the Endometriosis Diet, so that more women could be made aware of the issues surrounding soy in their diet.
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Post by ouchy on Feb 21, 2006 14:18:43 GMT -5
Yes, but phytoestrogens found in soy can also be beneficial in that they compete for estrogen receptors so that our bodies don't have to produce as much estrogen, which is stronger than phytoestrogens. It is the same principal as estrogen in birth control pills.
If estrogen was soooo bad for endometriosis, why would they prescribe combined b.c. pills (estrogen and progestin)? It is because of the competition for estrogen receptors. With the synthetic estrogen, our bodies don't have to produce as much real estrogen.
My gynecologist explained this to me before, about the b.c. pills and estrogen, and I am now using black cohosh in the same way, except it is natural, not a synthetic estrogen. It is a plant estrogen, or phytoestrogen, which is similar in structure to our own natural estrogen we produce.
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Post by Dinah on Feb 21, 2006 15:25:54 GMT -5
Ouchy: What kind of soy are you taking and how much?? I would like to go back to soy cheese and soy milk, I miss a lot.............
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Post by ouchy on Feb 21, 2006 15:53:52 GMT -5
I'm actually not taking soy. I'm taking black cohosh. I'm not scared of soy, though. I do use soy sauce on some things I eat. Sorry I can't be more help. You might call an herbalist or someone like that. Someone who specializes in natural health.
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Post by ouchy on Mar 19, 2006 0:35:20 GMT -5
;)Update: I just finished my first complete menstrual cycle in about 1/2 a decade (I quit birth control pills.)... I used the black cohosh as an estrogen supplement (which acted like an anti-estrogen), and I had virtually no period pain. Also, my period was extremely light, and it only lasted 4 days, with the last day being just spotting! Love it! Love it! Love it! I'm excited about being a woman again!!! Yayyyyy!
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Post by ouchy on Apr 16, 2006 12:18:39 GMT -5
Another menstrual cycle with thusfar no pain, cramps, or anything yayyy!
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Post by erzulie on May 16, 2006 8:46:28 GMT -5
Ok, so I picked up some random free magazine about organic food at the store and it had a really interesting article about soy in it. In the interest of not getting sued for plagiarism, I would like to make it very clear that the magazine is called RootStock (Volume VI, Issue I) and that the article is called "When Soy Meets Girl" and was written by Tori Hudson, N. D. These are the parts I found most interesting:
"Perhaps the most well known compounds found in soy are phytoestrogens. Phytoestrogens are plant compounds that have a molecular structure that is similar to, but not the same as, estrogen, the main female hormone. Soybeans contain particular phytoestrogens called isoflavones. These isoflavones, because they have a similar structure to estrogen, are able to bind to estrogen receptors in the uterus, breast, brain, bone, arteries, etc. In some cases, they behave in a way that enables them to weakly mimic the effects of estrogen in some tissues, and in other situations, they are able to block the effects of estrogens. When it acts in a weak estrogen-like manner and where it is a weak estrogen blocker is complicated and not yet fully understood. Effects may vary depending on whether the woman is pre- or postmenopausal, whether she is on estrogen replacement or not, other medications, nutritional influences, intestinal health, genetics and more."
Later the article said that soy seems to lower the risk of breast cancer, and then it went on to say this:
"Like breast cancer, scientific data supports the conclusion the soybeans do not have a pro estrogen effect on the lining of the uterus. It is in fact probably an estrogen blocker and is associated with low rates of uterine cancer in countries where the soy intake is high. In another study, 114 mg daily of isoflavones for 3 months had no effect on the lining of the uterus. In one study of 5 years duration, postmenopausal women who had an intake of 150 mg of soy isoflavones per day did exhibit a thickening of the lining of the uterus (an estrogenic effect), although there were no precancerous cells. However, 150 mg of soy isoflavones per day is significantly higher than an average daily intake of soy foods in the diet--about 3 times the Asian guideline."
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Post by ouchy on May 16, 2006 11:15:15 GMT -5
Thanks for the article, Erzulie. I was figuring it would work that way, but then I thought about women in Japan w/ one of the highest rates of soy consumption and also one of the highest rates of breast cancer. But, from my research in my audiology classes, they also have a dry-type ear wax which has been linked to the same gene for which the breast cancer gene may lie. SO, I'm guessing that their consumption of soy/phytoestrogens being related to breast cancer is probably more genetic than being influenced by something that would essentially lower their over-all estrogenic content.
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Post by Jennie on Aug 28, 2006 16:37:52 GMT -5
DO NOT take soy products on a regular basis. Here's a quote from the book " What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Premenopause" by Dr. John Lee, one of the pioneers in the use of Natural Progesterone Cream. "Please be wary of all the hype around soy. Although it does contain compounds that can help balance your hormones, it is far from a magic hormone balance solution. Soy contains compounds that block the absorption of needed nutrients like zinc and will disable enzymes your body needs to access other nutrients. It directly blocks thyroid function and protein absorption. Many people are allergic to soy products, and women who are extremely sensitive to estrogens of any kind may react negatively to them. The traditional Asian processing methods used to make fermented soy products--tofu, tempeh, and miso—get rid of most of the toxins and make the beneficial phytochemicals more available in the body. Tofu and tempeh are a nearly complete protein and as such are an excellent alternative to meat in a balanced meal. Miso stirred into hot water with a strip of kombu or nori (seaweeds) makes a satisfying soup base or beverage. To offset the negative side of soy, Dr. David Zava recommends eating fermented soy products and tofu as the Asians do, with a protein such as fish and a rich mineral source such as the sea-weeds. Read more at www.endo-resolved.com/soy.html
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Post by ouchy on Aug 28, 2006 19:28:19 GMT -5
I've just started taking soy isoflavones 50mg for 5 days to induce ovulation. There are different ways of taking soy. There are also many different studies, most of which are contradictory to one another. I figure if they've been eating so much of it in Japan for so long, then I'm not going to worry much taking a total of 250mg a month if it helps me to get my body to do what it should be doing on its own! I have a nice diet, and I'm not going to exclude soy or other phytoestrogens (especially in such low quantities) based on the controversial materials available so far. Also, many of us have different conditions as well as endo, and with some of the other things some of us have, we can be estrogen deficient (PCOS), so some of us might take plant estrogens to essentially "up" our estrogen levels to help with our other problems, just as some of us may take phytoestrogens to lower our estrogen, whether to induce ovulation or to help w/ endo. __________________________________________________ Edited several hours after initial post...I just got a positive ovulation test strip. That means the soy did what I needed it to do--reduce my estrogen so I would get an LH surge, triggering ovulation.
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Post by erzulie on Oct 23, 2006 17:13:21 GMT -5
Well, having experimented with black cohosh for a few months, I have come to the following conclusion:
It helps! It really helps! When I'm taking it correctly I bleed less and the cramps are not as severe. Sure I still bleed more than the average person and experience some rather painful cramps, but it's not enough to keep me in bed all day. I'm able to keep going, go to work and do everything I need to do. Compared to a normal person my periods will probably always suck, but having had periods that made it impossible for me to do anything, I feel amazingly free any time I can keep going while on my period.
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Post by ouchy on Oct 23, 2006 20:01:24 GMT -5
^ Yayyy!!! SO glad it has helped you!!! I have not been taking the black cohosh for the past several months, and my cramps have returned from the depest circles of HELLLL!
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jp
Junior Member
Posts: 52
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Post by jp on Oct 25, 2006 18:28:52 GMT -5
Something I have learned about soy: it is one of the most genetically modified crops in the US. Lots of toxins, poisons, etc. I would recommend any food based product or supplement to be organic when possible.
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Post by erzulie on Oct 26, 2006 19:21:03 GMT -5
Definitely. It's very important for everyone to eat organic as much as they can. Unfortuantely supplements are hard enough to find without insisting that they be organic. Black cohosh is not soy though, it's a different plant.
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