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Post by shellymae on Aug 9, 2007 23:45:51 GMT -5
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Post by guest on Oct 7, 2007 9:41:41 GMT -5
I have been in surgical menopause for over two years (hysterectomy and bilateral oopherectomy) and am also still battling endometriosis. I have been on estrogen replacement though...not taking it is not an option for me since I now have severe osteoporosis.
About the progesterone. Progesterone taken alone can convert indirectly to estrogen (especially if you are severely lacking estrogen in your body...progesterone converts to meet those needs) and I wonder if that is what is happening to you? It is a complicated process, but if you do a google search "steroid hormone pathways" and look at the charts showing hormone conversions you can get an idea. Of course in surgical menopause these pathways are disrupted but nevertheless conversions can still happen.
I did take natural progesterone along with my estrogen replacement for the first six months, but it made no difference in opposing the estrogen and minimizing my endometriosis pain. I have heard that synthetic progestins are more effective for staving off endometriosis because their molecular structure is not recognized by our bodies and therefore can not be converted to estrogen. However, the side effects and long term problems of synthetic progestins can be horrid.
Sorry you are suffering so much. I hope I haven't confused you any further. I wish I had an alternative suggestion as far as relief for menopause without hormones but I haven't found one myself.
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Post by guest on Oct 7, 2007 9:56:47 GMT -5
I forgot to mention that even without hormones I know of at least one case of a woman over five years in surgical menopause after her hysterectomy/oopherectomy who still has endometriosis growing and causing problems. It is rare but there are cases of endometriosis persisting without reproductive organs or hormones to "feed" it. Endometriosis lesions can function and survive independantly of hormones. I think there is a huge misconception that this disease is strictly an estrogen dominant disease. I am glad to see there is focus on other causes and connections such as genetics, environmental contaminents/toxins, etc...
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Post by cherry on Oct 7, 2007 12:17:36 GMT -5
Just to add, the endo can also basically live off itself as it also produces oestrogen
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rio
New Member
Posts: 27
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Post by rio on Oct 8, 2007 11:06:25 GMT -5
So - does this mean that a natural menopause will not necessarily stop endo pain? I was hoping to struggle on to the menopause (I'm 46) in the hope of some relief. BTW, I still don't have a firm diagnosis of endo. Was hospitalised with severe pain under right ribs and throughout abdomen on day 3 of my period (4 months ago) - since then have had full bloodwork, 2 sets of X-rays, ultrasound, endoscopy - all normal. I see my gynae dr tomorrow after results of barium small bowel enema ordered by my GI dr to see evidence of adhesions (My gynae dr is reluctant to do a lap as I almost certainly have problems with post-surgical adhesions.)
At my last appointment, he offered me the choice of mirena coil, Danazol, or endometrial ablation - none of which, I think, will help, as most of my pain is bowel-related. My GP agrees and thinks I should not make a decision without a firm diagnosis of endo. So I was just going to turn down all options, including a lap, and wait until the menopause. But if the endo and scar tissue will still be there causing pain - what do I do? Insist on a lap, despite the risks? I really feel I can't carry on like this, with no hope of relief.
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Post by ouchy on Oct 8, 2007 11:09:56 GMT -5
I had a radioactive dye test done that showed my entire GI tract, and it showed NO evidence of endometriosis, yet at the lap 2 weeks later, my intestines were all glued every which way. So, don't be surprised if you don't see anything on the barium swallow.
DOnt' know what to tell you. We don't have any women on here who have gone through natural menopause. I believe kb's mom went through natural and is fine now, but don't quote me on that.
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Post by Guest on Oct 8, 2007 19:11:14 GMT -5
So - does this mean that a natural menopause will not necessarily stop endo pain? I was hoping to struggle on to the menopause (I'm 46) in the hope of some relief. BTW, I still don't have a firm diagnosis of endo. Was hospitalised with severe pain under right ribs and throughout abdomen on day 3 of my period (4 months ago) - since then have had full bloodwork, 2 sets of X-rays, ultrasound, endoscopy - all normal. I see my gynae dr tomorrow after results of barium small bowel enema ordered by my GI dr to see evidence of adhesions (My gynae dr is reluctant to do a lap as I almost certainly have problems with post-surgical adhesions.) At my last appointment, he offered me the choice of mirena coil, Danazol, or endometrial ablation - none of which, I think, will help, as most of my pain is bowel-related. My GP agrees and thinks I should not make a decision without a firm diagnosis of endo. So I was just going to turn down all options, including a lap, and wait until the menopause. But if the endo and scar tissue will still be there causing pain - what do I do? Insist on a lap, despite the risks? I really feel I can't carry on like this, with no hope of relief. I found a few articles from reputable sources discussing endometriosis and menopause. There is no cure for endometriosis, but it seems that, according to these articles and studies, most post menopausal women find relief from the pain of endometriosis. There seem to be rare cases of endo persisting and causing pain after menopause. www.cwhn.ca/resources/menopause/endo_meno.html en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endometriosis#EpidemiologyI understand your frustration and fear of surgery and complications. I too deal with adhesions and scar tissue which have gotten worse after each surgery (3 so far). For me those have been worse than the endometriosis itself, and unfortunately adhesion pain does not abate with menopause and sometimes surgery. I am just starting in a pain management program and learning non surgical and non drug ways to manage my pain. As well I have to take heavy pain meds daily to function. There is no easy answer in your case since surgery carries the risk of worsening adhesions and scar tissue, but without a confirmed diagnosis of endometriosis you can not be properly treated either. And often adhesions and endo go hand in hand. If I were in your shoes and there was any way for me to get to an endometriosis specialist (who deals only with endometriosis/adenomyosis and has published research on these subjects) I would. They have much more skill in dealing with minimizing the risk of scar tissue/adhesions and finding the root cause. Had I gone to one in the first place instead of allowing the first doctor to mention endometriosis to me to perform surgery and a hysterectomy on me I probably wouldn't be dealing with surgical menopause at 35 and even more intense pain than before. Good luck to you!
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Post by kb on Oct 9, 2007 1:26:22 GMT -5
Nah, not natural, she had a hysterectomy, and it worked great for her, shes never had a problem since.
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Post by ouchy on Oct 9, 2007 9:00:18 GMT -5
Ah. LOL. It's hard to keep everything straight. Glad you found this, kb!
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rio
New Member
Posts: 27
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Post by rio on Oct 9, 2007 10:34:17 GMT -5
Thanks for all the info, links etc. You're right, Ouchy - nothing showed up on the barium enema - so my digestive tract is 'normal'! Funny how eating and drinking can cause such pain and distress then ...Anyway, I actually saw the top consultant today (for the first time). He said that my symptoms were 'probably' a combination of IBS, adhesions and possibly endo on the bowels.
He said that, if it really was unavoidable, he would be willing to do a lap via Palmer's point - that he had done many laps on women with adhesions & wouldn't lose any sleep over it before(!) but it did carry risk and could form more adhesions. So he strongly advised trying the Mirena coil to see if suppressing my ovaries helped any of my symptoms, which are really exacerbated by my monthly cycle. So - I'm booked to have it fitted next Wednesday. He assures me that it can come straight out if I have any nasty side effects - I told him that I really can't bear to feel any worse than I do already. I know that some of you have had bad experiences with it, but I have come to the point where I will try anything.
He also told me that it won't get rid of all my pain (adhesions etc), which I know, but any relief would be good. I shall let you know how I get on with it. Here's hoping.
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barb
Junior Member
Posts: 70
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Post by barb on Nov 30, 2007 23:45:47 GMT -5
Hey Ladies, Sorry I haven't been around for a while.
This topic is the same problem I face every month. I did the lap surgery and confirmed endo. Thought everything was fixed and exactly a year later from my surgery date, everything started all over again. I'm seeing a new doc on Monday 12/3/07, as mine closed business in June and left state. This one is a fertility doc with speciality in endo. I don't know what to do anymore. It seems I have my pathetic part time job trained that once a month, I will call in sick. But I am tired of this all. I am 40 and praying for menopause and that this will all stop. Either that or I am battling the decision to have hysterectomy and take my chances. I want off this roller coaster ride!! It isn't fun anymore.
Hugs
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