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Post by erzulie on May 3, 2007 18:32:39 GMT -5
All right, this rant is long overdue. I used to work in a day care center, a few years ago. I worked there for a year, which is quite long enough to be traumatized. It was a big, expensive, chain day care, which means it was one of the worst. My mother still works in that awful place, in a room full of two-year-olds. She'd like to leave but can't afford to lose her insurance. I hear a lot of bad stories from her, so the topic is still on my brain a lot.
Here's the thing about day care centers, in case any of you are harboring any delusions: CHILDREN ARE NOT WELL CARED FOR IN THOSE PLACES. They can't be. The limit for how many children are allowed in a room is determined by the law, and varies according to age. The law, of course, varies from place to place. Where my mother works, two people care for 16 2-year-olds all day. When is the last time you sat down with your significant other and discussed the possibility of having 16 children? How about 16 kids all the same age? I doubt if any of you have considered this, most likely for two reasons: 1. You'd go nuts, and 2. You'd never be able to take care of that many kids. Well, the staff at day care centers are no better at it than anyone else. They're just doing it because they need the money. Most of them care about the kids and really try their best, but their best really isn't all that good. 16 kids for two people? No wonder there are so many injuries!
The numbers are a little bit better with younger kids. With babies under 15 months, the ratio is 4 babies for every adult. if that sounds okay to you, imagine having quadruplets--without a significant other. Or octuplets with one. It just gets worse and worse, until the children reach school age, when it becomes 20 children to each adult. It's maddening. Imagine being a single mother with 20 kids ages 5-11, only the kids don't listen to you because they know you're not really their mother.
So, at this point i hope you have some idea how crazy the day care workers are at all times. Now add this to the mix: parents who are too stupid to realize that you can't keep an eye on 20 children at once. Interestingly, the parents who work the longest hours seem to be the worst about this. They are really bad in the 2-year-old room, where there are the most injuries due to the fact that kids that age basically just beat each other up all the time. Biting is particularly common at that age, and the parents hit the roof whenever they've discovered their children have been bit. If it happens more than once, the parents will often actually request that the teachers shadow their child in order to protect him or her. Right, good idea, leave the other 15 children to their own devices and just watch the one that Mrs. so-and-so deems to be the most important of the bunch. The bad news being, the parents of the other 15 kids all believe their children are the most special and deserve the most attention. But when two people are trying to watch 16 kids, how much attention are any of them going to get?
The most frustrating part for me when I worked there was that I DID care about the kids. I loved them to pieces, and I sometimes felt their parents didn't care that much. Since it was an expensive day care, we kind of saw the worst of the worst where parents were concerned. There were nice ones, but the majority of children had two parents who both worked long hours ar high-paying jobs. Meaning, their careers came before their kids. Those parents, though they can afford to take off work, absolutely will NOT take off to stay home with their children when they are sick. Do you know how frustrating it is to be holding a child who is crying because she's sick and trying to explain to her that mommy isn't coming, even though you called her, because she says she's "busy?" Actually one of the times that happened to me, the child mother wasn't at work. She was never at work, because she didn't have a job. Her husband made all the money. She was just leaving her children in day care 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, so she could have more time to shop for shoes and stuff.
I could go on and on, but my fingers are getting sore, so I'll stop for now.
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Post by irishmuse on May 4, 2007 7:10:55 GMT -5
My mother has always been anti-daycare. There have been studies that children who go to daycare rather than being raised at home end up being in trouble more, and having developmental disabilities, etc. I understand what you say about parents wanting their children looked after the most. My sister is an Educational Assistant in a DD class....you should SEE the "speshul" parents that these children come from. Many are not actually disabled, but are socially and educationally inept due to their parents! One girl comes from a home of 8 kids, 4 dogs, and 1 mom in a 2 bedroom apartment! And her mother sent to her to school, on her period, not only without a pad on, but no underwear! I think it's the area they are in....it's in the "bad" part of town. But really...who has 8 children in a 2 bedroom apartment? ?
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Post by ouchy on May 4, 2007 14:45:14 GMT -5
I dont' understand WHY people have children if they can't properly take care of them!!! Too bad we can't force sterilizations anymore!
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Post by erzulie on May 4, 2007 16:45:04 GMT -5
My mother has always been anti-daycare. There have been studies that children who go to daycare rather than being raised at home end up being in trouble more, and having developmental disabilities, etc. That doesn't surprise me. Actually we had a few part-time kids, and they were so well-behaved. The kids who were there the longest acted out the most. Their parents had the most trouble believing it, as well...probably out of guilt because they know if their kids are having problems that it's their fault! We had one father who insisted that if his 5-year-old son was hitting the other children, it was because they had provoked him. He seemed to think that made it okay. Most parents just think we're making stuff up when we tell them about their kids getting in trouble. Actually, the most common response I got from parents whenever we brought up anything of concern was, "But that's normal behavior for a four-year-old!" I always felt like shaking them and saying, "I spend 8 hours a day with 20 four- and five-year-olds! You only have one! I think I know more about what's normal for this age than you do!" I wish all parents would recognize that if a teacher is bringing somehting up, then it's not normal. If it were normal she wouldn't be worried, because most of the kids in the class would be doing it. If she's bringing it up than most of the kids in the class must NOT be doing it.
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Post by ouchy on May 4, 2007 16:50:05 GMT -5
I always felt like shaking them and saying, "I spend 8 hours a day with 20 four- and five-year-olds! You only have one! I think I know more about what's normal for this age than you do!" I wish all parents would recognize that if a teacher is bringing somehting up, then it's not normal. If it were normal she wouldn't be worried, because most of the kids in the class would be doing it. If she's bringing it up than most of the kids in the class must NOT be doing it. My brothers were in daycare when they were 2 for about 3 hours a few days a week. My mom once got a call that something was wrong with my brother--that he had an erection when the day care lady went to change his diaper. My mother's advice was that she better get out of the way bc he is about to pee! Even though the lady had been around little boys/girls and obviously changed diapers, I guess she had never caught a baby with an erection before! So, sometimes, parents can know some things that day care people don't, just bc they see more kids all day long. Obviously this isn't a behavioral issue thing, but the lady was adamant that somethign was wrong with my brother and that my mother didnt' care! All the kid had to do was pee!
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Post by erzulie on May 4, 2007 22:00:59 GMT -5
Ah, well, that woman was just stupid! Or maybe she was new on the job?
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Post by ouchy on May 4, 2007 22:30:25 GMT -5
^Stupid and had been there forever! But I agree in most cases parents just want to turn a blind eye to problems that others bring up! It's kind of like with my nephew overseas. When we went to visit, it was obvious that the kid has a hearing impairment! I did all kinds of little tests that I learned in school, and he didn't respond to ANYTHING! Not even banging of huge pots and pans behind his head!!! NOTHING! I brought it up to his mother (an OBGYN), and she said that she'd had him screened at the local clinic and that he was fine (She told me about the techniques that were used, and the whole little screening was invalid by U.S. standards, though!). I illustrated to her that he doesn't turn his head when anyone calls his name, including his parents, that she called for him for 5 minutes in perfectly audible speech, and that he didn't even respond to big brass bells ringing or pots banging. Basically, what it boiled down to was that she and her husband are both doctors (who look at vaginas all day long), so they'd know if their child had a hearing problem! Talk about denial! I'm sure if someone at a daycare center would have mentioned something, she would have ignored it, too...because OBGYN's are trained in detecting hearing losses !
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Post by kb on May 5, 2007 2:39:23 GMT -5
You know there is nothing more aggravating than someone who cant see what they lack knowledge in.
Just because a person is a doctor does not mean i know everything.
People often assume as a nurse any condition they bring up, any surgical procedure, basically any question they may have i will have an answer to. I have often had to say, i dont really know much my knowledge on that is basic, its not my area. When i was working i worked community nursing with department of veteran affairs clients, my knoweldge on many things is going to be limited.
I find it hard to respect any doctor that cant recognise what they dont know, actually i find it hard to respect anyone like that.
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Post by chloelouise on May 5, 2007 7:39:17 GMT -5
Before I got to ill to work I was/still am at heart one of those loons that LOVES working with children. I had nannied for a family for three years and when they moved back to America I kind of figured that the next step in my career would be to get a job in a nursery (day care centre) I lasted 4 months, I couldnt hack it, it wasnt so much the volume of kids as I was use to being responsible for 5 children all under 7 when I nannied. It was the attitude of the other workers I couldnt stand. I once got called into the office and 'told off' for comforting a girl after she had been sick. Apparently they didnt want children to think it was ok to be sick at nursery. HUH?? SHE WAS A YEAR AND A HALF Then there was the time that just as I was going on lunch I noticed a child had a pooey nappy, I asked another member of staff if she minded doing it as if you didnt take your lunch at the right time you wouldnt get a break, she got really moody and said "Cant you see im busy" (she was a 24 years old sat on the floor ignoring all the children reading a story book in her head to herself) "I'll do it in a minute" Trusting that she wouldnt leave this little boy in a pooey nappy that long I went on my lunch 45 minutes I came back and yep you've guessed it, she hadnt changed him. I was SO disguisted!! The last straw was when I was on a late and one of the fathers turned up obviously drunk to collect his daugther, I told him I just had to pop to the office and told the manager of the nursery that this guy was driving, raving drunk and wanted to pick his daughter up. I thought the manager would have rung this girls mum or even rung social services but NO I got told to keep my nose out and the manager let her go!! I couldnt believe it and left at the end of week!!! Im currently studying to get my diploma in home based child care so I can child mind from my home. (2 CHILDREN NO MORE!!)
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Post by ouchy on May 5, 2007 11:29:59 GMT -5
I find it hard to respect any doctor that cant recognise what they dont know, actually i find it hard to respect anyone like that. I completely agree!
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Post by ouchy on May 5, 2007 12:14:01 GMT -5
The last straw was when I was on a late and one of the fathers turned up obviously drunk to collect his daugther, I told him I just had to pop to the office and told the manager of the nursery that this guy was driving, raving drunk and wanted to pick his daughter up. I thought the manager would have rung this girls mum or even rung social services but NO I got told to keep my nose out and the manager let her go!! I couldnt believe it and left at the end of week!!! Im currently studying to get my diploma in home based child care so I can child mind from my home. (2 CHILDREN NO MORE!!) Wow, Chloe!! That's nuts! I commend you for trying to intervene! Too bad the idiot supervisor wouldn't listen to you and act in the best ineterest of the child!!!! I'm proud of you for quitting, and I think you'll make an excellent in-home care person!!!
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Post by erzulie on May 5, 2007 12:37:18 GMT -5
Geez, sounds like you were at a pretty bad day care Chloe! There were some unpleasant people at the one I worked at, although there is quite a high turnover rate. The management there is simply awful, and the parents have no idea. There is a school policy that children can not come back the day after they've been sent home for throwing up, but the director lets them do it. Her decisions are all about money, and rarely about what's good for the children. She was also a neat freak. I understand the day care needed to be clean, but the kids needed to be allowed to play too. When I was there she always got upset whenever I took the kids outside after it had been raining because she was afraid they would track mud in. Well, they never tracked mud in because I always just told them to keep off the grass when it was muddy, and that wasn't hard to do since the play equipment was on concrete (which was a safety issue, but it wasn't a mud issue). Well, although there never was a mud problem, she couldn't stop freaking out, so she paid some people to dump mulch over the grass so the ground would be completely covered (this was after insisting we did not have to money to replace broken toys). I was a bit irritated about that, but I was completely outraged the day she came outside and told me not to let them touch the mulch (which they had been happily playing in) because it had chemicals in it. If it had chemicals in it, why did she dump it on a playground for small children? Also, keeping them out of the mud for a day every now and then wasn't so hard, but telling them they could NEVER touch the mulch although they were allowed to run around on it was nearly impossible. I couldn't believe she had done that! Some of the workers were also quite lazy, and some were downright mean. I've heard teachers tell one-year-olds, "Come on before I knock you out." My mom once heard a former teacher tell a two-year-old, "You are so f*ing stupid!" A longtime teacher in the three-year-old room, who is now finally leaving, was seen by many to pick children up by one arm and slam them into a chair (she was investigatigated by the authorities, but they couldn't find enough evidence to sack her, plus the boss thought she was the greatest teacher ever). I am sure the parents would have been horrified if they had known all this, but they didn't. Most of them firmly believe their children are happy in day care, and I guess that's what they want to believe. Most of them even bring their kids to day care all day even when they are on vacation from work, claiming that they think their kids will miss it if they aren't there, though it's hard to say if that's the real reason.
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Post by chloelouise on May 5, 2007 16:15:12 GMT -5
awww, thank you ouchy! You're such a sweetie!! (((((hugs)))))
If I ever found out someone had grabbed my child (not that I have one) by their arm and 'thrown' them in a chair I could knock them out!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by irishmuse on May 6, 2007 13:19:11 GMT -5
Oy! You know, I'm not a big fan of children, I admit it (well, most anyways....there are exceptions, though), and I would NEVER EVER hit, belittle, swear at, yell at, or mistreat a child in any way! Seriously...does the place hire sociopaths?
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Post by erzulie on May 6, 2007 15:44:23 GMT -5
Actually, they hire whoever comes in the door, pretty much! Which means they sometimes get really good teachers, but those usually don't stay long, because they can get paid better elsewhere. This day care was one of the highest CHARGING in the area, which I suppose made the parents think their kids were getting better care (cough cough, gag). Actually very little of the money is spent on the children, and hardly any is used to play the epmplyees as well--it's the lowest-paying day care in the area, with lead teachers making $8/hr and assistant teachers making $7.25-$7.50/hr. That's US money of course, some of you may have to translate that at ask.com or somewhere in order to appreciate it.
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