|
Post by Karen on Jul 23, 2011 13:36:59 GMT -5
That's very good info to have in your back pocket, Pretty! And isn't it nice to know that doing something as simple as supplementing with progesterone might help your body along?
As far as the progesterone cream, if it's not a high enough dose, it might not do anything just yet. Is it an OTC cream? In addition, you may find it takes a few months to really work. I suspect you'll have better luck when you switch to a higher dose. Do you know what dose of progesterone your NP will put you on after your surgery and after the adrenal tests?
How long was your luteal phase this cycle? Did you start using it right after ovulation, or just towards the tail end?
|
|
|
Post by pretty on Jul 23, 2011 18:19:12 GMT -5
My last 'cycle' if I can call it that started after a 2 day 'period', lasted 7 days, temps went up, used the cream for 3 days only, and then this morning temp dropped and 'period' started. So if it's a real cycle, my LP was 3 days. It's nuts. All to do with this darn ovary (I hope). Yeah, it's prescription, but still just a cream. It did affect me though, made me sleepy and hungry and felt actually pretty calm. Was wondering if I should still use it... but since this bleeding has started I guess I'll stop... not gonna really get a lot from just a cream, I know, and looking forward to trying the real stuff! Thanks Karen for your reply.
|
|
|
Post by Karen on Jul 24, 2011 12:16:39 GMT -5
Hmm, that's an odd cycle! What dose is your cream? And are you using it at night? Progesterone has a natural calming effect so it's best to be used at night when you're drifting off to sleep. You CAN get a lot from cream as long as it's the right dose, so don't discount that! But, there's conflicting evidence out there about what's the best form of progesterone. Whether it's through the skin or orally, your body still has to break it down and there are metabolites as a result, and it's the metabolites that can have more significant side effects than the progesterone itself.
Whatever the case, I hope your body 'resets' itself so you can test it all out!
|
|
|
Post by redwood on Jul 27, 2011 1:36:49 GMT -5
Yeah, Karen's right. If it's a prescription cream, they can make it plenty strong enough. Most of us on here have only used the OTC creams, and they barely have any progesterone in them. The pharmacy told me they could make a 400mg cream, but the max for the troches that I take are 200mg. It seems that most NPs don't seem to mention using a vaginal suppository, although that seems what they use for people who are trying to keep a pregnancy. My old gyn said that you can actually use the prometrium pill as a vaginal suppository, which sounded kind of odd, but apparently this is done.
Pretty, did your NP say to take a break on a few days of your cycle or to take it constantly? I first started with taking it every day, but later switched to 5 days off for my period. I stop on day 27 and then wait for my period to start. I have regular periods, although one month I had a 2 week cycle, but normally it's 27 or 28 days. Without progesterone, my cycle was 26 days.
|
|
|
Post by pretty on Jul 27, 2011 11:38:11 GMT -5
I am only taking it fromO to AF, but with my cycle all screwy, that came out to be 4 days... After this surgery on August 5th I have an adrenal test to finally get done, THEN he will put me on another form, I think like you have the troches whatever that is I assume you put them under your tongue? I really want that to happen now, because I liked the feeling I had on Progesterone cream. I felt sleepy, hungry, and calm (which was a nice change lol). I even felt kinder, if that makes sense. More content. Loved that! oh and Karen, thanks, I should have been doing it at night it seems lol no wonder I was so sleepy!!!!
|
|
|
Post by Karen on Jul 27, 2011 17:08:08 GMT -5
I know what you mean, I get a good, tired feeling as I doze off to sleep after I take it. But be sure your NP is monitoring your dosage - if your dose is too high, it can produce an almost tranquilizing effect and that's not good! I'm not at all suggesting your current dose is too high, but just something to keep in mind in the long run.
|
|
|
Post by redwood on Aug 17, 2011 11:31:43 GMT -5
Well, it appears that dropping my progesterone to 100mg for just two days on day 6 and 7 made me feel worse this past month. My period was heavier and the pain increased just after my period. So it seemed that that experiment didn't work for me. I need to take 200 the whole time. But seriously, the only time I didn't have ANY pain was when I took it every day and didn't take a break.
|
|
|
Post by Karen on Aug 17, 2011 20:01:23 GMT -5
Yeah, that's a big difference in dosage! If you were to try to play around with it again in the future, perhaps consider going to a dose in between 100 and 200 right after your period instead? Whatever the case, I'm glad you're able to figure out what works and what doesn't for you!
You've been on bio-identicals for a while now, haven't you? Overall, would you say it's been a good experience and something you're glad you tried?
|
|
|
Post by redwood on Aug 18, 2011 0:19:51 GMT -5
yeah, I've been on bio-identicals for a year and it took several months to get the dosage right, so it was slow starting. Then I went to the new Dr. and started taking not taking it for 5 days during my period and that wasn't quite as good as it was that one month that I took it every day at a higher dose. When I did the 100 for 7 days and then 200 after that was pretty bad. It's quite clear that I need it earlier at a higher dose in my cycle. Whenever I don't do that, then I have a heavier period and more pain. It seems the less I bleed, then the less pain I have, which makes sense. It doesn't work that way for everyone though, does it? This past month I did it as usual and just stopped 5 days and started right away on 200, so we'll see in comparison how it is next month. I guess I could try 150 for two days on days 6 and 7. It was the NP that said to drop to 100.
What about you, Karen? What is your opinion on your experience with bio-identical progesterone?
|
|
|
Post by Karen on Aug 18, 2011 6:13:43 GMT -5
Yeah, it's taken me a while to adjust, too, but I think it's been pivotal for me in managing my pain. I guess the thing I like most about it is that I CAN make adjustments as needed depending on how I'm feeling. I felt like with BC it was either all or nothing. I feel now that I need to reduce my doses a bit so that I can get the most benefit for the least amount of hormones so I'll be doing some more tweaking in the coming months, but I'm confident we'll be able to come up with the best dosing/timing for ME, not just some cookie-cutter approach. So yeah, for me, it's been a good experience and has really helped me feel more in control of my health.
|
|
|
Post by redwood on Aug 18, 2011 14:10:56 GMT -5
I just read on another post (in the post-menopausal section) that natural progesterone can be converted into estrogen if your estrogen is low as the body senses that it needs more estrogen. Apparently, the progestins, since they aren't recognized by the body as progesterone, don't do this. Of course, I'm just reading someone else's post, so I'm not sure if that is a true fact supported by research. This worries me as I certainly don't want to be upping my estrogen. My estrogen is NOT low when I had the urine test, but it was rather low before I started taking the progesterone AND I sometimes had hot flashes (approaching menopause? I'm 46). After taking the progesterone I didn't get hot flashes anymore, except for the first time I stopped the progesterone for 5 days. (before I was taking it every day). Now isn't that weird? Isn't it low estrogen that produces hot flashes? Certainly I am better than when I was not taking anything, although when I first started taking the progesterone (at a lower dose), it made my pain worse. But the best month was when I took 187mg every day (this was in December) and recently it was a bit worse than it was, say in March and April. I'm not sure why (except for last month when I had dropped to 100mg on days 6 and 7). I also had some pain today (the usual spot, plus some cramping), which is weird - this is mid-cycle for me.
I don't know what to think anymore. I have an appt. with a regular dr. (GP type - you don't go to a gyn in Canada for a basic exam) who is doing my gyn exam (pap smear and all that) and I wonder if I should see if she can refer me to an endo specialist. There are two that I know of in Vancouver. I'm just worried that it will be a waste of time if they are just people who would prescribe things like lupron. I've never been to an endo specialist before. One of them had high recommendations from people on the internet (reviews) and one person said she was open to alternative treatment options, so maybe she would be the one for me to see.
I need to stay on top of this because I can't risk having endo in my liver again. And when it was there before, I had NO symptoms from it. So I kind of need to have it scanned every once in a while. It was clear a year ago on an ultrasound, but I always worry about it.
|
|
|
Post by JC on Aug 18, 2011 14:47:07 GMT -5
I just read on another post (in the post-menopausal section) that natural progesterone can be converted into estrogen if your estrogen is low as the body senses that it needs more estrogen. Apparently, the progestins, since they aren't recognized by the body as progesterone, don't do this. Yes this is absolutely true. Progesterone is the precursor to estrogen. I just took an endocrinology class and we learned about the entire hormone cascade. The hormone cascade starts out with cholesterol and then gets converted to pregnenalone. From pregnenalone, it's converted to progesterone. This happens in both men and women. From here, pregnenalone can become 4 different types of hormones depending on what enzyme acts on it: Aldosterone, cortisol, testosterone, or estrogen. That OBgyn that you mentioned who is open to alternative medicines sounds so awesome! I'd be all over that one.
|
|
|
Post by redwood on Aug 18, 2011 14:47:10 GMT -5
hmm, I just did some internet exploring. Seems like with the cream progesterone you don't need as high of a dose as with oral and troches. I have thought several times of switching to the cream, but was afraid it might change things for the worse for a while until I get that figured out. Well, right now, it's not perfect, so maybe I should try the cream? Also, I still don't know if some of the progesterone is converting to estrogen. I guess there's not a way to tell that since I have only one blood test before and then a urine test later on and that is hard to compare.
|
|
|
Post by redwood on Aug 18, 2011 15:22:13 GMT -5
Thanks for the info, Jenaya. Apparently it happened to this woman: www.hystersisters.com/vb2/showthread.php?t=397416Although some things I read said that it would only happen to progesterone produced by your ovary and NOT taking as a medication (cream, pill, troche). Oh man, this is all so confusing. I have my appt. with the Dr. next tuesday, so I will see if she will refer me to that endo specialist - at least to see what she thinks.
|
|
|
Post by Karen on Aug 19, 2011 6:39:00 GMT -5
A few things to keep in mind - Jenaya is right that these hormones start out as cholesterol and get converted to one thing after another, but they don't just 'happen', there are a LOT of precursor hormones to the end-product hormones. One factor involved in the conversion is functioning ovaries, and based on your peri-menopausal state, the conversion likely happens at a much slower rate than if you were younger.
As for hot flashes, they are a response to lower estrogen levels, but not directly. Your body senses lower estrogen levels and has a drop in endorphin levels, which is what causes your body to kick into gear and release norepinephrine, and your body's response to that is what causes the hot flashes. There's a lot more going on there than just low estrogen levels.
I think if you're truly concerned about your hormone levels, you should get re-tested. Either a blood test or a urine test, but at least something that's consistent to a test you've already had. If you're on hormones, you really should get tested on a regular basis anyway. And remember - it's all about getting your hormones into more balance because during those conditions, your body knows how to work properly. Perhaps the endo specialist that dabbles in alternative treatments would be a good option. Hopefully she can help you monitor things, because things like this really should be monitored, especially your history with your liver!
|
|