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Post by 1234 on Jun 23, 2011 6:06:00 GMT -5
Passion and ability to explain clearly are great.
My chart just totally flipped out on me! I entered in my data for today (day 21) and it removed my ovulation line and told me my temperature was too goofy for it to tell if I'd ovulated yet. Poor Fertility Friend!
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Post by Karen on Jun 23, 2011 6:21:19 GMT -5
Hmm, I wondered if that would happen... Once you get your period, feel free to share your chart! Mine said I ovulated this month, but I think it's just due to my cold that I have slightly higher temps.... Sigh.
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Post by redwood on Jun 23, 2011 14:26:06 GMT -5
Karen, Meridian Valley is the same company my Dr.'s office used. although they charged me $550 and I think you said yours was $250? Maybe it's because they had to send it over the border, or maybe they profited off me. I feel ripped off! Anyway, what was your progesterone level? Mine was something like 12,000. The upper end of the range was a bit over 6,000 if I recall correctly. I don't have the copy here. My NP said she was making a copy and then she forgot to give it to me before I left.
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Post by Karen on Jun 23, 2011 21:45:40 GMT -5
Hmm, when my doc first mentioned the test, she said she thought it was close to $600, but then she came back and said it was a lot less. Maybe she didn't take a cut of it? Or maybe your test looked for more things? If you can get your hands on a copy, get it! Some of it was over my head but included with it was a diagram of all the hormones and how they are related. It was really in depth, but helped me get a better understanding.
As for my progesterone level, it was 5039, which would have been in the normal range if I had ovulated that month but I didn't. So it was high for not ovulating (follicular phase range was 0 - 2500).
The cool thing about that testing company is that they have a doctor at their lab consult with your doc about the results! It was actual the lab testing company that suggested all the supplements/doses I should be on to kick my body into gear. If you ask me, it was worth every penny! Once I start on the supplements, I'm supposed to re-test the cortisol portion of that test only.
I really hope that test gives you a lot of guidance!
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Post by 1234 on Jun 24, 2011 7:56:42 GMT -5
You sound omniscient, Karen . I'll see what I end up with. Thanks for lending all of your knowledge.
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Post by redwood on Jun 24, 2011 21:06:31 GMT -5
Karen, I got a copy of my results.
So my estrone was: 33.8 estradiol: 6.0 estriol 41.8 progesterone: 12,402 dhea: 669 testosterone: 2.0
The testosterone is below the range and the progesterone is above the range.
There were some other things that were a bit low, but they are long, complicated chemicals. But it says I needed adrenal support (the ND wrote that).
I see now that my dhea isn't low, but the testosterone is. She didn't seem to want me to supplement that.
There is a lot more, but I am not putting it all here, of course.
Also, I just thought of this....this shows the amount excreted, but what does that say about the levels in the body tissue? Would that be accurate to assume the tissue levels would be in a similar range? If I'm excreting a lot of progesterone, does that mean I am also keeping a lot? Hmmmm.
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Post by Karen on Jun 25, 2011 8:43:11 GMT -5
Yeah, those are higher! Mine were: estrone: 7.1 estradiol: 1.6 estriol 3.8 progesterone: 5039 dhea: 92 testosterone: .6 See how low I was in everything in comparison!?!?!?! The DHEA should help nudge up the testosterone a bit. As for your question about what was excreted vs. what's in your body, here's a synopsis from their website (http://meridianvalleylab.com/hormone-testing/comprehensive-24-hour-urinary-steroid-hormone-panels/): Steroid hormones are prepared for excretion by metabolic processes in the liver. Liver enzymes reduce unsaturated bonds and add hydroxyl groups. Conjugation with sulfate (sulfation) renders the converted molecules more water-soluble. 20% – 30% of these compounds are secreted into the bile and excreted in the feces. The remaining 70% – 80% are released into the bloodstream. The kidneys filter out the metabolites and excrete them in the urine. Essentially, the urine test is looking at how your body metabolizes the various hormones. Did you also get a summary of your enzyme activity? I don't really know how to interpret those results, but my doctor told me my results show that my enzyme activity isn't normal, which means my body has a hard time converting or using the hormones properly. That's why she put me on some high doses of supplements (per Meridian Valley) - to get my enzyme activity up. I'm on hold with the supplements until I'm done with some testing with an endocrinologist, but hopefully in a week or two, I'll be on them. This website offers the flowchart I mentioned - it shows how all the steroid hormones are produced and what enzyme activity is needed for some of them: meridianvalleylab.com/hormone-testing/24-hour-urine-hormone-tests/ A lot of it is Greek to me but makes me realize the complexity of it all! Notice they all start out as cholesterol? My cholesterol levels are high, which further suggests that perhaps my body isn't converting things properly... And, here's a website from them that offers interpretation on the results of the urine test: meridianvalleylab.com/hormone-testing/24-hour-urine-hormone-tests/steroid-hormone-profiles-interpretation/Can you tell I've obsessed about the results of this test?? For me, this test explained SO MUCH and I'm so glad I did it. My doc was relieved, too! She said for most people, a simple blood test could give her what she needed to know about the various hormones, but the urine test revealed a lot more for me.
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Post by DeAnna on Jun 27, 2011 17:47:48 GMT -5
Just went to visit w a GYN that is supposed to specialize in bio identical hormones (they do the pellets). She told me that I was NOT a candidate for natural progesterone because I had endo and progesterone alone does not suppress the ovaries. Shes not the first doc to tell me this. She said that the suppression of ovarian function is the key to suppressing the endo. Ditto for the Mirenea IUD (not a candidate, wont suppress ovarian function). So, I thought that I would let all of you chime in here. Im sick of going to Dr's that contradict each other. I feel like I need to go to medical school myself to figure all of this out. Last year I was 5'4 and a fit 125 lbs. This year I turned 40 and while Im unfortunately still 5'4, im now 150 lbs. My cholesterol is high also. Im very disappointed in how this appt turned out. I did discover that my thyroid is low (according to their lab standards in this office). Just thought Id throw all of that in because I know that hormones play an important part in many functions and overall health. Any thoughts? DeAnna
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Post by redwood on Jun 27, 2011 19:43:24 GMT -5
DeAnna,
That's because most dr.'s don't really know much about endo (if you ask me). Most will prescribe BCP or something awful like lupron.
Well, that's odd that she said that. Usually progesterone is prescribed because someone has high estrogen and low progesterone, thus the ratio is out of whack. Some think that endo is fueled by high estrogen. Although in Karen's case it seems she has low estrogen, but then maybe her progesterone was super low too. Did your Dr. test your hormones? What does she suggest instead? Did she think the pellets were not strong enough? I haven't heard of that. You can have oral capsules, troches and creams that are strong though for endo. I take 200mg/day.
My ovaries are suppressed, meaning that I don't seem to ovulate (I'm assuming that is what you meant). My periods are regular though, and very light too.
Although, my NP doesn't really want my ovulation suppressed, but rather to balance my hormones. I now have very high progesterone because of what I'm taking (200mg days 7-27), but it has decreased my symptoms greatly, so that works for me. I don't seem to have any side effects, unless you consider not ovulating a side effect. Also I think it may cause me to have foot cramps when I point my toes. But nothing major. When I took progestin (mini pill), it made me have my period every two weeks. I consider that a bad side effect.
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Post by redwood on Jun 27, 2011 19:53:11 GMT -5
Karen,
thanks for those links. I did get enzymes tested. Basically, I was high in these:
16a-PH Estrone progesterone
and low in these:
testosterone allo-tetrahydrocorticosterone 11-deydrotetrahydrocorticosterone
Those last two, I'm not sure what they are, but my NP wrote next to them "adrenal support." So I think the licorice is for that.
Strange that you are so low in estrogen. You're in your early 30's, is that correct? I thought I read that somewhere. I'm 46, so I'm surprised that my estrogen isn't lower. The only one that was higher than the range given was the 4_OH estrone ratio and also my estriol, but she said the estriol wasn't bad to be higher and it was marked as HIGH by the lab. So the estrone itself is with in the range, but it's towards the higher end.
The ranges also say they are for young adults, so if you're over 40, it might not apply correctly. So maybe my testosterone is normal for a 46 year old? I stopped the DHEA. I'm paranoid that it will turn into estrogen instead. Seems like I should take testosterone rather than that. She didn't prescribe that though.
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Post by Karen on Jun 27, 2011 21:22:04 GMT -5
Yeah, I think I'm on odd case. When my doc first tested me, she noted that my estrogen was lower than it should be, but my progesterone was lower yet and not enough to balance things out. I think there's a problem with my pituitary gland, which controls the ovaries among other things. If my hunch is right, that would explain my low estrogen... I'm only 34 so it's not cool to have post-menopausal estrogen levels!
As for the DHEA, consider trying it and then having your levels retested soon (blood test). That should give an indication of what's converting. I just checked one of my sources (Life Extension Revolution book) and 20-30 mg is a normal dose, so 5 mg is just a little bit of a boost, not much! I think if there's any hope to convince your doc to put you on testosterone, you might need to at least try it for a bit, see where you end up.
And DeAnna, that doctor doesn't seem to know much about endo... The goal for bio-identicals is not to suppress ovarian function, it's to get the hormone levels to what they SHOULD be so the body can function properly. When the body can function properly, it can do some pretty amazing things towards helping heal itself. Shame she doesn't understand that. Did you at least get her to check your hormone levels? You might be able to convince her to at least test your levels and try progesterone for 6 months or so... There's some good research out there - if she's open to prescribing bio-identicals, she might be open to reading up on some studies! I can't think of any off the top of my head but a google search for bio-identical progesterone and endometriosis is bound to bring something up!
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Post by DeAnna on Jul 1, 2011 14:34:17 GMT -5
Karen, she couldnt check my hormones unless I come off of the BCP's for a bit, otherwise the results are not accurate. I will have to do some research. She told me the same thing that Nezhat's (my endo specialist) office told me and that was the only treatment for endo that they currently reccomend is continuous BCP's. She says that without them, the endo could start to grow back. I feel that there is a disconnect between what traditional MD's suggest and what NP's/alternative medicine suggests. I will have to do my own research, but again.... it all depends on who writes the literature as to what the article/book will say. I need to find a practitioner that I trust and so far, I havent found that. This GYN office told me that their practitioners were knowlegeable in endo but I didnt get that feeling.
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Post by Karen on Jul 1, 2011 17:04:35 GMT -5
Yeah, she's at least right not to check your hormones while on BC.
Although continuous BC is often prescribed for endo, it doesn't always work at preventing endo from growing back so take that with a grain of salt. Some women have been on continuous BC, lupron, etc. and endo still grows back with a vengeance. I'm not saying that's always the case, of course, but just a reminder that nothing is really fool-proof. Bio-identical hormones aren't fool proof, either, but it's amazing how much better you can feel when you're working with real hormones at levels your body likes them to be at.
If this is a path you want to go down, keep searching for someone you trust!
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Post by pretty on Jul 23, 2011 11:06:48 GMT -5
I wnet to my NP and finally got the results of the hormone saliva test. My estrogen is very high, and my progesterone is low and doesn't rise after O, so right there, might be why I never got pregnant. So i never did take the adrenal or stool test - but am having surgery August 5- so NP asked that I take the adrenal test 2 weeks after, and the stool test 1 month after (because of antibiotics during surgery, have to wait for gut bacteria to come back after) and will then have a more complete picture. Also, because of the adrenal test, he gave me progonol progesterone cream for now to switch to whatever form the bioidentical Progesterone comes in after the adrenal test since oral P messes with those results. Whew.
So here's my question: have used the progonol cream for only 3 days, and just woke up to a low temp and my period! My cycle is probably off from my ovary acting up, but it seems like the progesterone should have lengthened my LP, not shortened it to only 3 days! but hey, I am on the way to have this ovary out. Maybe there's just some other reason... But it kind of freaks me out!
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Post by hellsbells on Jul 23, 2011 11:58:21 GMT -5
May be just a coincidence Pretty, or the timing. Here's hoping the next few cycles even themselves out, especially after surgery. I'm quite excited about your progesterone results - yep, if they're not rising there's not much chance of a fertilised egg taking. Ooooh it's gonna happen! (sprry if I'm building your hopes up I just want it so bad for you) x
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